Is there a cast iron rule for this?

The_Flyer

Hi, just need some clarification on a couple of incidents. Any help greatly appreciated:

1) €1/€2 pl Hold 'em, after the flop first player to the left of the dealer raises pot(roughly €15). It is folded all the way around to the player directly to the right of the dealer who is not concentrating 100% as he is messing with his phone. Player has his hands over his cards(admittedly not totally covering them) and therefore the dealer fails to see them and awards the pot to the initial raiser. Then the other guy suddenly realises what has happened and starts giving out. Is there a cast-iron rule here?

2) Later in the same game(6 players). Dealer is dealing out whole cards and turns up the second card to the player under the gun. What happens here?

kickintheteeth

1. as long as the flop isnt in the muck, the hand can continue, and the guy on his phone is free to check or raise, if it is in the muck, dealer has no option but to continue as if the guy with the phone, had no cards.

2. all cards are taken back, and their is a redeal.

Scotty #

2. Not necessarily. House rules. Some places only redeal if the first card is shown and if its the second card the dealer continues to deal and then gives the player whose card was exposed the 3rd card from the bottom of the deck. This way the deal for the flop etc is normal with cards being burnt as normal.

NB. The player whose card has been exposed has no choice in the matter.

tricky D

kickintheteeth wrote:

2. all cards are taken back, and their is a redeal.

2. Nope, if a card is exposed by the dealer on the second round of the deal, most casinos' ruling is to announce the card, turn it over and start the muck pile with it, then replace the player's second card with the third card from the end of the deck. A redeal happens when the card is exposed on the first round only. Some/many casinos also will not replace a card if the exposure is the player's fault - most commonly when their hand is in the way.

bohsman

tricky D wrote:

2. Nope, if a card is exposed by the dealer on the second round of the deal, most casinos' ruling is to announce the card, turn it over and start the muck pile with it, then replace the player's second card with the third card from the end of the deck. A redeal happens when the card is exposed on the first round only. Some/many casinos also will not replace a card if the exposure is the player's fault - most commonly when their hand is in the way.

Not in a cash game

tricky D

Yup, shows how many cash games I deal.....
:rolleyes:

RoundTower

The_Flyer wrote:

2) Later in the same game(6 players). Dealer is dealing out whole cards and turns up the second card to the player under the gun. What happens here?

It doesn't really matter. Give him the burn card or the third card from the bottom or redeal the whole hand. Just make sure you use the same rules all the time.

The first question is more interesting, if it is possible to continue the hand normally then do so. If the flop has been mucked or the bettor's hand has been mucked you really have to use some judgement. This includes warning the player who was hiding his cards.

The_Flyer

The first question is more interesting, if it is possible to continue the hand normally then do so. If the flop has been mucked or the bettor's hand has been mucked you really have to use some judgement. This includes warning the player who was hiding his cards.[/QUOTE]

yeah,the flop was mucked and so too was the bettor's hand. The decision taken was to let the bettor take the pot down. Seemed like the fairest thing to do at the time as the other guy wasn't concentrating 100%. It's an interesting one though!

RoundTower

The_Flyer wrote:

yeah,the flop was mucked and so too was the bettor's hand. The decision taken was to let the bettor take the pot down. Seemed like the fairest thing to do at the time as the other guy wasn't concentrating 100%. It's an interesting one though!

That's very harsh punishment for not paying attention and hiding your cards, which was most likely accidental. Where was this?

cardshark202

Seems like the fairest punishment to me. If you're on the phone in the middle of a hand its your own fault.

VEGAS NIGHTS

RoundTower wrote:

That's very harsh punishment for not paying attention and hiding your cards, which was most likely accidental. Where was this?

I don't think this is "punishment". A decision has to be made....... It is the players responsibility to protect his hand at all times. I think in this instance, this would also include the board cards. The player had is whole cards covered and was not paying attention to the game while on the phone. He did not protect his hand. In adition to this the flop was mucked and the pot was awarded. I don't see any way of reversing from here.

Kimba

If a card is exposed on an initial deal in a cash game, it is a misdeal. upturned cards do not get replaced in cash games.