PA Choice

Steoob

hi all i know ive posted up a good bit before about PA's and things and ive learnt probably the best piece of advise while doing it...that active speakers are the only way to go...

so now i have 2 choices in setup... one is more expensive than the other but its probably better...

ok first setup:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_the_box_ma1520_aktivmonitor_prodinfo.html
and this...
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_behringer_ub802_eurorack_prodinfo.html

plus cables and a stand (i'd prefer it on a stand...opinion on this?) and delivery it all comes to €454

second setup:
2 of these:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_the_box_pa202a_prodinfo.html#fpix
and this:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_behringer_ub802_eurorack_prodinfo.html

along with buying cables and stands and delivery it all comes to €566

i feel that the second option is better due to having 2 fullrange speakers that are both louder than the monitor...i'd be afraid that the monitor wouldn't be able to get enough volume...as i have to compete with very loud guitaring and drumming... it would usually only be for practice but would also be nice if i could use it for a gig if there were PA problems in the venue...

i was recommended the monitor setup by someone here efore but i just wanted to consider the alernative...

thanks
Sven

Savman

Just for the record, I'd suggest you consider dB Technologies active speakers they have numerous advantages over those speakers you're looking at (weight, price, performance, sound)

Check out http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_artikel-184540.html or any of the Opera range

Avoid that "the box" speaker, it has a 15 inch woofer which is only needed for bass frequencies, it's also 23kg and only 250w - not a good buy imo

For most purposes, a 12 inch woofer 200-300w under 20kg should be your target. Behringer also make awfully big & chunky speakers.

Steoob

i was recommended that monitor with the highest recommendation... are you sure its only bass frwquencies? are you sure your not htinking of bass bins coz monitors i would hope amplify all frequencies...

david

No a 15" + tweeter cab should be good for both high and low frequencies. I use a thomann brand system, and im very happy with the results. Not AMAZING sound, but i can get decent sound (3 vox + bass) for rehearsal and small gigs. I have 2x10" tops and an active 15" sub. Cost me a little over €500 i think for the full rig with cables, stands, cases etc. Thats excluding my yamaha mixer though

Steoob

so anyway.....which of the 2 do ye suggest?

Steoob

ive come across another solution...it might be stupid but let me know ok...

this monitor...http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/en/PA_Homerecording/6_71_PMONIAKTIV_751_PAH0000966-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
is active and can have a passive speaker connected to it...

so if i have that monitor with this...http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/en/PA_Homerecording/6_71_PBOXPASSIV_751_PAH0001617-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html connected to it through the behringer mixer linked above in the OP it would be a nice little system...

then i could buy both those speakers again when i get the next input of cash...

i made a little diagram for those who cant undertsand properly...

the red square is the first pahse and the green square is the second...



let me know what ye think thanks :-)

Eoin Madsen

Any active speaker I've ever seen will support a second passive speaker. Just make sure the impedance is right, and bear in mind that slaving another speaker will divide the power. If it's for practice, an upright speaker serves no real purpose other than to increase feedback. By which I mean, there are no advantages over a floor monitor, and several reasons why a monitor is preferable.

What Savman meant is that you don't need a full range with a 15" bass/mid speaker, not that it wouldn't work. Having a bigger bass/mid driver (and correspondingly bigger enclosure) increases the low end response. But unless you're putting kick or bass guitar in there, you don't need the advantages offered by a 15" over a 12". Something with a 12" would be cheaper and lighter.

Steoob

ah eoin hows it goin... you seem to be the man to talk to when it comes to this thing...

you recommended me the active monitor before but im afriad that it wont be powerful enough...if i put it up on a stand would it amplify better? do you 100% condemn fullrange upright speakers for practicing? and also would i be able to plug one into the monitor for a gig situation?

david

Buy a pair of active 12" tops, use them as floor monitors for practice, and pole mount them for gigs. You can add a 15 or 18 sub if you need it for gigging.

Whatever you do get a mixer with at least 6 or 8 mic preamps, you'll only want a bigger mixer in a few months if you get the little behringer one.

Steoob

thats good advise...which tops do you suggest?

why do you think that aboput the mixer? i would never need more than 3 inputs max...1 vocal microphone is all that i would be using really...maybve and second for rare backup vocals and unlikey a third for micing up the bass drum...nbothing else would need to b hooked up through it...

Eoin Madsen

Steoob wrote:

you recommended me the active monitor before but im afriad that it wont be powerful enough...if i put it up on a stand would it amplify better?

No. The entire advantage of a monitor (and the only actual difference) is that it sits on the floor and points up. There's no reason why a floor monitor pointed at you would be any less loud than a speaker on a stand pointed at you. But the monitor will definitely feedback less - and a monitor is definitely what you'll have pointed at you when you get on a real stage, which is also worth thinking about.

Steoob wrote:

do you 100% condemn fullrange upright speakers for practicing? and also would i be able to plug one into the monitor for a gig situation?

As long as the active and passive speakers have compatible impedance and are of similar wattage, you can plug anything into anything. Monitors are just wedge-shaped speakers. While we're looking at that, a "top" is also just a 2-way speaker (a mid and a tweeter) that is designed to be coupled with a subwoofer for its bass frequencies. It would offer no particular advantages over a full-range speaker (a bass/mid and a tweeter), it wouldn't be cheaper, and it wouldn't be much smaller. Not all tops are wedge-shaped enough to sit on the floor (you really need a 45 degree angle, minimum), and you'll find as many full-range speakers that are wedge-shaped. Notably, the Thomann brand speakers aren't. They have curved sides, so they won't sit on the floor - if they did I'd have recommended those over the "monitors" to be honest. To be clear, I'm not saying don't go with a "top" as such, but rather than it's not really a relevent factor to consider for your purposes. Full-range vs mid/high doesn't enter into it for budget vocal monitoring. Most "tops" are pretty close to full-range anyway.

Savman

yep think you misinterpreted my last post, what I'm saying is you will not need a 15" woofer for monitoring purposes unless you intend sending a load of low end to it, otherwise its needless hassle (when I say "hassle" I'm strictly referring to the weight of the unit)

there is nothing "wrong" with any speaker you have chosenm they're all fine but like most things, the best option depends on your usage for the speaker.

You mentioned you want the speaker to double up as a possible Front of House PA speaker, bearing that in mind you should not bother with anything below 300w per speaker for entry level gigging speakers. Also there wouldn't be a huge difference in the Thomann/Music Store shop brands and Behringer other than the features of each unit.

I'm a bit miffed as to your use with the music store MC12? That's a passive speaker, what are you using to power it? I certainly would not recommend slaving your FOH power from a stage monitor

Either way good luck with your quest

Steoob wrote:

i was recommended that monitor with the highest recommendation... are you sure its only bass frwquencies? are you sure your not htinking of bass bins coz monitors i would hope amplify all frequencies...

Steoob

ok so basically to sum up yere saying....if i can find a good set of full range top speakers that can be used on the floor i should get them...failing to do that i should get the big 15" wedge one?

david

Yeah get a pair of 15" active tops and a small mixer and yer sorted, with the 15" woofer you wont need to add a sub for most applications. You'll be well capable of gigging with two 15" tops and they work well on the floor too.

Steoob

well im after stumbling across these apparantly amazing speakers take a look and tell me what you think https://www.musicstorekoeln.de/en/PA_Homerecording/6_71_PBOXAKTIV_82_PAH0004161-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html

and they can be tilted back onto the floor aswell...seems to be exactly what im looking for at a not too shabby price either...

david

Theyre not amazing. On a par with thomann brand from what i've heard.

Steoob

but theyre 450 watt...theyre obviosly alot louder like... no?

david

There are lots of thomann brand speaker with decent wattage. Extra wattage is important though, it means headroom not loudness.

Steoob

good point...ya i have my eye on the PA203-12A's they look fairly decent and they can be tipped too...cool cool

i think havin 2 15"'s might be bit mad for bringin around and stuff especially having 2 like...but 2 12"'s seems to be a nice happy medium...

Eoin Madsen

Steoob wrote:

well im after stumbling across these apparantly amazing speakers take a look and tell me what you think

Everything is apparently amazing according to the shop. That looks fine for the money. It seems to do what you want.

But don't get too caught up in all this wattage bull****. Bear in mind several things: the speaker sensitivity will affect the volume just as significantly. A good EV or Dynacord would be louder than a Thomann or Behringer speaker run with equal power. Higher quality speakers are more efficient. The mid driver at cost price in an EV cab would be more expensive than that enitre Behringer unit. There is a reason.

Given that we don't know what kind of wattage measurement they've given us, it's impossible to say whether we're talking about headroom or volume, and it's impossible to compare directly with the Thomann speakers. Email Musicstore and ask is that 450 watts RMS power, 450 watts Peak power, 450 watts continuous power, or 450 watts Program power. It could be lower powered for all that "450 watts" alone tells us.