Google the new censor

dubadubdub

The following is an email I got from The Free Tibet Campaign. They are UK based so the address and emails at the end are for Google UK and International, I searched for Google Ireland contacts but no luck. If anyone has them maybe they could post them here.

What Google has done is unbelievable. Hopefully some you will email Google to express your feelings. Thanks.

Heres the email :

Free Tibet Campaign
2 February 2006

Google facilitates China's violation of Freedom of Expression and Opinion


BACKGROUND

In January 2006 Google announced that it is to capitulate to political
pressure from China and provide a web-based search engine for the Chinese
market that will prohibit access to information about Tibet and other
sensitive political issues, such as Taiwan and the protests in Tiananmen
Square in 1989.

In a clear violation of its own philosophy which states: 'You can make
money without doing evil', Google chose to provide China's oppressive
regime with tools of surveillance and restriction in order to gain access
to a growing Chinese market of internet users.

Google not only violates its own corporate values but facilitates human
rights abuses by China. Freedom of information is a basic human right of
all people, Chinese and Tibetans included, and article 19 of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights says: "Everyone has the right to freedom of
opinion and expression... [and] to seek, receive and impart information and
ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers".

Please protest against Google's support of China's oppressive regime.

ACTION
1) Boycott Google's services including search engine and email account. A
list of alternative service providers is available on www.freetibet.org

2) Phone, fax or email Google office in the UK and ask them to pass a
message onto their Chair and CEO, Dr. Eric Schmidt protesting Google's
actions. Please inform us of your participation with a short email to
campaigns@freetibet.org or fax to 020 7324 4606 and note on the subject
line: Google Campaign.

Google's office details:
phone: +44 (0)20 7031 3000
fax: +44 (0)20 7031 3001

or c/o Ema Linaker
UK PR Specialist
+44 (0) 20 7031 3130
ema@google.com

Debbie Frost
International PR Manager
+1-650-253-4660
dfrost@google.com


3) Join a demonstration on Tuesday 14 February 2006 between 12:30-14:30,
in front of Google's office in
Belgrave House
76 Buckingham Palace Road
London SW1W 9TQ

Goodshape

I think it's very much worth noting that MSN, Yahoo et al. have done the same thing (and have been doing it for longer than google) and they have not made headline news. And unlike MSN and Yahoo, the Google search results display a "some results have been removed" message.

I know it's not exactly 'do no evil'.. but I think it's more evil from China than Google (who don't really have a choice if they want to do any kind of business in the counrty). The Great Firewall of China has always made it very difficult for the chinese people to find out about Tianamen Sq. (or 'democracy', 'freedom', 'free tibet', 'human rights', 'the dali lama'.. etc, etc.) and as I said, at least Google lets them know they're being cheated (and lets the rest of the world know through the fact that anything the big G touches makes the news).

Blaming and boycotting Google because of this is, in my opinion, missing the point compleatly. Things should be done, sure, but Google could crumble and fall and China wouldn't be any better off.

China really needs to sort its **** out.

leeroybrown

I'm with Goodshape on this one. It makes good business sense for Google to comply with China's rules and I certainly won't be boycotting them because of it.

Sand

I think Google made the best decision from a lot of bad ones. If it was closed down, no loss to the Chinese government. With the move theyve made Google can highlight to the Chinese that their search results are being censored. Hopefully that can only encourage them to question why theyre being censored.

dubadubdub

Goodshape wrote:

I think it's very much worth noting that MSN, Yahoo et al. have done the same thing (and have been doing it for longer than google) and they have not made headline news. And unlike MSN and Yahoo, the Google search results display a "some results have been removed" message.

And hopefully Google won't do what Yahoo did last year and supply data to China that was used as evidence to jail a Chinese journalist for 10 years.

As leeroybrown said it makes good business sense and I suppose you could choose to measure all things by that value, that's up to each of us to decide.

It was only last week that Google resisted the US Department of Justice when it wanted the company to disclose data on what people were searching for. Two completely contradictory actions unified by their good business sense.

AARRRGH

Google are obeying the local rules in China. They're a publically (sp?) traded company. They have to do what's best for the shareholder.

They had little choice.

Their building-a-profile-on-every-user is more disturbing IMO.

...

Also, did you know they've stopped contributing money to Google.org?

Goodshape

dubadubdub wrote:

And hopefully Google won't do what Yahoo did last year and supply data to China that was used as evidence to jail a Chinese journalist for 10 years.

I doubt they will, but why not teach them (and yahoo) that that isn't acceptable by boycotting Yahoo instead?

As leeroybrown said it makes good business sense and I suppose you could choose to measure all things by that value, that's up to each of us to decide.

Bit of an anti-capitilist myself, so no, I won't measure anything on that value. "because it will make money" is not an excuse.

It was only last week that Google resisted the US Department of Justice when it wanted the company to disclose data on what people were searching for. Two completely contradictory actions unified by their good business sense.

So they refused to hand over data to their own government -- what makes you think they will ever hand the same information over to the Chinese?

I think you're reading too much into the sensational headlines. Google does not dictate Chinese policy.

It's a good fight to fight (I'm talking both about keeping Google 'good' and improving freedom of information in China), but you're looking in the wrong place.

dubadubdub

Goodshape wrote:

I doubt they will, but why not teach them (and yahoo) that that isn't acceptable by boycotting Yahoo instead?

Bit of an anti-capitilist myself, so no, I won't measure anything on that value. "because it will make money" is not an excuse.

Actually I'm not much of an anti-capitalist - much too fond of a good profit!

Haven't used Yahoo in ages and of course Google doesn't dictate Chinese policy but they are doing business with a regime that has killed a third of the Tibetian population since the invasion.

Goodshape wrote:

It's a good fight to fight (I'm talking both about keeping Google 'good' and improving freedom of information in China), but you're looking in the wrong place.

IMHO rather than the wrong place it's one of many places.

Goodshape

dubadubdub wrote:

IMHO rather than the wrong place it's one of many places.

Maybe, but I just think Google is an all-to-easy target. And as I said, if they didn't censor it would change very little.

Even raising awareness of Googles (and others) actions could be a good thing, but protesting outside Google offices as if they make the rules is misguided.

It's an interesting knock-on effect that this has only really made big headlines when the all mighty Google decided to do it... dare I say that that's almost a good thing. Also, due to the bad press which Google has recieved, Microsoft (who also censor results in china) have recently stated that they will no longer censor the blogs they host without a court order.. and even then will only censor the blogs in the countries whos laws are being violated. It's made information freedom a public relations issue.

Funny how the world turns.


For the record, I'm all for a free tibet (I have an ongoing interest in Buddhist teachings, for one thing) and abhor the Chinese governments censorship of information.

dubadubdub

Goodshape wrote:

It's an interesting knock-on effect that this has only really made big headlines when the all mighty Google decided to do it... dare I say that that's almost a good thing.

I agree and I'm sure that the protest outside their offices is intended to get some media coverage for the wider issues.

Ah... it's nice to have some agreement!

Good luck with the teachings.

Goodshape

dubadubdub wrote:

I agree and I'm sure that the protest outside their offices is intended to get some media coverage for the wider issues.

Ah... it's nice to have some agreement!

Good luck with the teachings.

Cheers, and good luck with the cause

I just hope the Google thing doesn't serve as a smoke screen for whats really going on (..why not take the protest to the Chinese embasy instead? ..although I suppose you have to ride ride the media-wave in order to get public support )

oscarBravo

I've commented on this before.

I'm curious as to what, exactly, people think would have been achieved by Google refusing to do business in China over and above what they will achieve by offering some access to the Internet.

Apart from anything else, check out the first result of this query.

dubadubdub

oscarBravo wrote:

I'm curious as to what, exactly, people think would have been achieved by Google refusing to do business in China over and above what they will achieve by offering some access to the Internet.

Would the Chinese regime change over night, no. But Google would have shown that its corporate statement - 'You can make money without doing evil' actually meant something.

Is what they have done 'evil'? Who knowns but it is ruthlessly opportunistic. And they know it or why else do they feel the need to dress it up as the best of a bad lot. This is a purely finanical decision and they should be proud of that but isn't it funny how they seem uncomfortable defending it on that basis.

Google as some sort of fifth column inside China; I don't think so.

oscarBravo

dubadubdub wrote:

Would the Chinese regime change over night, no. But Google would have shown that its corporate statement - 'You can make money without doing evil' actually meant something.

So this isn't about China, but rather about Google?

Is what they have done 'evil'? Who knowns...

Clever - you pre-empted my next question with a rhetorical one, and then dismiss it. If your issue is with whether Google's "do no evil" philosopy means anything, surely it's important to be clear on whether or not doing business in China is evil?

...but it is ruthlessly opportunistic. And they know it or why else do they feel the need to dress it up as the best of a bad lot.

It's opportunistic, sure - but what makes it ruthless? As for "dressing it up" as the best of a bad lot - it seems to me it is the best of a bad lot. You haven't yet shown what Google not doing business in China is going to achieve in real terms.

This is a purely finanical decision and they should be proud of that but isn't it funny how they seem uncomfortable defending it on that basis.

To describe it as "purely" financial suggests that no consideration whatsoever was given to the political and moral issues. Unless you can demonstrate that such is the case, I think it's a particularly insidious accusation.

Google as some sort of fifth column inside China; I don't think so.

Can you argue the points as presented, rather than extrapolating them and arguing with the results?

Frankly, this whole affair strikes me as political opportunism. "Google Does Business With Evil China - Film At Eleven!!" I'm still waiting to be proven wrong. A good starting point would be a more convincing answer to the question I posed earlier: what, exactly, would have been achieved by Google refusing to do business in China over and above what they will achieve by offering some access to the Internet?

Goodshape

Somewhat related I suppose :
Another cyberdissident imprisoned because of data provided by Yahoo

binaryboy

Sand wrote:

I think Google made the best decision from a lot of bad ones. If it was closed down, no loss to the Chinese government. With the move theyve made Google can highlight to the Chinese that their search results are being censored. Hopefully that can only encourage them to question why theyre being censored.

id be inclined to agree with this. besides i hear that google is a very small player in the chinese search engine market

Hobbes

I agree with Sand. :eek:

dubadubdub

oscarBravo wrote:

If your issue is with whether Google's "do no evil" philosopy means anything, surely it's important to be clear on whether or not doing business in China is evil? ....................
To describe it as "purely" financial suggests that no consideration whatsoever was given to the political and moral issues. Unless you can demonstrate that such is the case, I think it's a particularly insidious accusation. Can you argue the points as presented, rather than extrapolating them and arguing with the results?................A good starting point would be a more convincing answer to the question I posed earlier: what, exactly, would have been achieved by Google refusing to do business in China over and above what they will achieve by offering some access to the Internet?

Evil is Google's choice of words but I think that in today's world the word ethical is far more meaningful.

Is doing business in China ethical? It certainly can be but not when you agree to the totalitarian demands of the regime. Google is not alone in having done this nor are they the only ones to become the focus of protests.

Did Google consider the political and moral issues?

The Tibetan government in exile, located in India, is the only organization to keep detailed records of deaths in Tibet at the hands of the Chinese. It says death by torture and other means has been a fact of life in Tibet since the Chinese occupation. According to its records, 1.2 million Tibetans died between 1949 and 1979 as a result of the Chinese occupation. The statistics show:

* 173,221 Tibetans died after being tortured in prison.
* 156,758 Tibetans have been executed by the Chinese.
* 432,705 Tibetans were killed while fighting Chinese soldiers.
* 342,970 Tibetans have starved to death.
* 92,731 Tibetans publicly tortured to death.
* 9,002 Tibetans committed suicide.

Maybe Google did consider the facts before agreeing to the conditions of the Chinese government and signing the deal. Only they really know.

Google is offering the Chinese people nothing that they didn't have while using the state search engine, the only difference is that Google can generate extra revenue.

This isn't about simply doing business in China; it's about companies agreeing to help a repressive regime function.

dubadubdub

oscarBravo wrote:

Apart from anything else, check out the first result of this query.

That link seaches Google's Chinese language service hosted in the U.S. The new Google.cn service, which will be housed on computer servers inside the PRC, has not actually gone live. Maybe try it when it does go live.

Millions of Chinese and Tibetians would love to know the result.