Clinch Work, Tips & Tricks Please??

Millionaire

Hi Guys

Can I ask some of you experienced Clinch fighters for help?

Can you give me some ideas, tips, tricks, etc for stand up clinch strategy.

These little thai fighters are throwing me all over the place like a rag doll.

As I said in my Thailand Thread, this camp is known for clinch work.

They do alot of practice each day on the clinch, clinch and knees sparring, and I am in there working with the best of them which is great.

They tied me up and can slam dunk me on my head.

There was some K1 Thai fighter here today, and he was rough to work. Mitsubshi Belt champ too I believe.

So what can a man do to stop himself from me thrown.

They bear hug tight into me and can throw me real easy.

Other than that I sparred a few boxing only, can certainly hold my own on hands only with them...and they were not too happy after I got a few shots in either! ha ha

Dragan

The essence of a successful clinch is keeping your own comfort while cost your opponent his. At the moment i would say that is what is happening with your. These guys obviously have a huge amount of experience on you, so are extremely comfortable in the clinch. I am also willing to bet that they are instigating the majority of it and are ending up with the clinch in first, with you locking in after them, yes???

Millionaire

Yes. I know that they know exactly when to clinch, how to clinch, and what to do with body weight and balance (mine and theirs) and what position to be in to throw me, or sweep me.

Today for example, I noticed some of them drop their weight, go flat footed to avoid being thrown. so I tried similar, and was not chucked about as much today.

Colm_OReilly

I don't know exactly what they're doing in the clinch and amn't as experience in pure Thai clinch as MMA and wrestling clinch but, with that caveat in mind:

I always tell my athletes to mind their "centre line" as I call it. There should always be a vertical line running from your shoulder through your forward knee and into your forward toe, any of these get pushed out of line and you are effectively off balance.

Also, to avoid being thrown, it's important to have your hips lower than your opponent (this is most noticable in judo like headlock throws)

When establishing dominance you must cut off all space between your hips and your opps body. Space is what he needs to move and to attack.

Don't look down! Though I'm sure they're always yelling this at all their fighters. Keep your shoulders shrugged so your neck will be stronger.

I usually do a drill evey clinch class where one guy takes up the classic wrestlers stance (GR that is) and his partner grabs his elbow and behind the neck. The partner then starts to move the 'wrestler' around, it's the wrestler who has to learn to keep his stance and move his feet in little shuffles, rather than heavy steps. Depending on the skill level of the 'wrestler' the drilling partner can be as soft or as vigorous as needs be.

Hope this helps.
Go Clinch!

Millionaire

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I always tell my athletes to mind their "centre line" as I call it. There should always be a vertical line running from your shoulder through your forward knee and into your forward toe, any of these get pushed out of line and you are effectively off balance.

Also, to avoid being thrown, it's important to have your hips lower than your opponent (this is most noticable in judo like headlock throws)

When establishing dominance you must cut off all space between your hips and your opps body. Space is what he needs to move and to attack.

Don't look down! Though I'm sure they're always yelling this at all their fighters. Keep your shoulders shrugged so your neck will be stronger.


Hope this helps.
Go Clinch!

Hi Colm

Thats great advice. Thanks.

On the points mention above, when I think about what the Thai fighters do, and I see it in my mind, it all mirrors what you have said above.

Hips lower. that is sort of what I mean when I saw them drop their weight and go flat footed with feet well apart. I did that today and was not thrown as much.

I see them cutting off the body space, hugging real tight chest to chest with arms around my back. now thats one I get throw from alot. and also injured by back too, one lad locked on so hard. in fact one day one lad shinned up by body and climbed up to my shoulders like I was a bananna tree (ok he was messing with me for fun..but still...)

I started to stand tall, turtle my neck and shoulders to resist getting chucked forward, and down and maybe into a knee to face (if it was for real).

see we practice these with no gloves, so there is alot more grappling than I ever expected involved.

Of course I know that these guys could probably take my head off with an elbow from most clinch positions if the mood took them!!!! I do not under estimate them for one minute.

Each day, I try to learn more and apply it. out here the way it is done is you learn by doing , but no one really explains the theory behind it. so I knew I would get good advice on here!

(My God, I think I am turning slowly into an MMA'er ... lol ... oh no, not this debate again...

Thanks in Advance to all... keep the info coming....

Dragan

By intigating the clinch, they are getting a much better line of control on you, than you are on them! The are getting a good lock, with there arms close to the central line of your body ( as mentioned by Colm )

The trick is literally to just keep you body under your head, i know it sound silly and maybe it is, but thats what balance is all about, move with there suggestion, you can only knock over a resisting target afterall.

It will be different if they start bringing in knees and elbows into it. Thats when it will get rough!

paddyc

sink or swim mate

In 2 months time you be ever bit as good as them, you gotta start at the bottomand work to the top man, you know this ****

dont give up or hey think you got a small heart and they not traing you, you got to have a diamond heart to impress them folks...

keep it real man ... keep it thai

Millionaire

Yes. their very good at setting me up to pull me into a knee!!

I found standing up tall and straight helped too.

Its great to work this with different levels of resistence. Plus they are probably happy to get practicing on throwing me (6 foot and 13 stone ) about the place. there is very few foreigners up in these parts.

These guys are doing clinch work day in day out, when I was in Fairtex camp last may, I saw very little clinch work done.

I suppose a MMA fighter could reach down under the legs from clinch , grab under the legs, and throw some one like that ( do a Brian O Driscoll) .

I did a judo throw once or twice and the fella had a face on him... ha ha. (ok its against the rules) but I just wanted to see could I...

They do not be overly happy if you get a technique on them.

Millionaire

paddyc wrote:

sink or swim mate

In 2 months time you be ever bit as good as them, you gotta start at the bottomand work to the top man, you know this ****

dont give up or hey think you got a small heart and they not traing you, you got to have a diamond heart to impress them folks...

keep it real man ... keep it thai

I m rocking 110%. Its a small village, and they see me running about the roads, jogging, getting my running in before afternoon training. and they be shouting and joking at me, but I know its only part of the game.

I m blasting them rock hard bags daily now with the shins, and since then they started to train me more and more.

Paddy, ya should have seen the kick on that k1 guy today. jaysus , the crack of this kick, i d say they heard it back in dublin, and then 20 lighting fast whip cracks of kicks in about 10 secs...amazing.

RedRaven

Millionaire wrote:

Hi Guys

Can I ask some of you experienced Clinch fighters for help?

Can you give me some ideas, tips, tricks, etc for stand up clinch strategy.

These little thai fighters are throwing me all over the place like a rag doll.

As I said in my Thailand Thread, this camp is known for clinch work.

They do alot of practice each day on the clinch, clinch and knees sparring, and I am in there working with the best of them which is great.

They tied me up and can slam dunk me on my head.

There was some K1 Thai fighter here today, and he was rough to work. Mitsubshi Belt champ too I believe.

So what can a man do to stop himself from me thrown.

They bear hug tight into me and can throw me real easy.

Other than that I sparred a few boxing only, can certainly hold my own on hands only with them...and they were not too happy after I got a few shots in either! ha ha

Watch what they do and mimmick them, it will take a while Thai grappling is so different to MMA....A couple of things to watch for is...

If they pull left hang on and pull left yourself like a full circle.

The head can be used as a steering wheel so use the base of the skull as a lever.

Keep your chin tight and your neck short this will easy the strain on the neck muscles and give them less to hang on too.

Knee the inside and out side of their legs when grappling they will be less confident throwing when you do this.

Do lots of chin ups to improve the arms and shoulders.

And most off all show respect to them and keep at it dont give up.

Good stuff my man.!!;)

fianna.5u.com

MOST IMPORTANTLY: Relax! I find tht most experienced guys, pray on the over reaction of less experinced guys. So when they give you somehting or force you into a corner dont fight it too much, remember its the FLOW with the GO!

After that, the technical stuff.

I find that Thai clinch is quite different to MMA or wrestling in the following ways.

Thai clinch you are high on your toes, Neck short with shoulders shrugged (turtle necked) and generally your dominant position comes from double neck tie.

In MMA or wrestling your are not high on your toes because you need your hips to be furhter back (unlike thai where this would result in eating heavy knees), you have your posture in the same shape as thai but because your hips are further back your head looks straight ahead (unlike thai where your head is almost looking up).

The key elements for all clinch (and I maintain all of fighting) are Hooks, Posture and centring. Imagine you have a line pointing straight out of your chest (like you have been shot with an arrow) this should always point dirrectly towards the centre of your oponent.

Next is posture, you should always have a "deadlifting" posture.

Then hooks, or neck ties. Which ever opponent owns 2 of these elements in a fight will be the victor. So a simple body lock has all 3, double under hooks, stronger posture and is centred. Same with thai clinch.

If we look at a whizzer the whizzerer has the dominant posture and the stringer hook, in order to defend the whizzer the whizzeree has to get back on centre and take back posture or hooks.

So when you are training make sure you conctrate on your posture, centring and hooks / neck ties. I would be less inclined to put your hips lower than your opponents in MT.

AND WATCH BAUKAW VIDEOS!!

Colm_OReilly

"Turtle" that's the word for it. I forgot that while teaching clinch yesterday, and had to rely on a long winded explanation!

Gerry it sounds like you're doing some serious amount of training there, nice work!

paddyc

i should say there are a few variations of the thai clinch some you stand tall and some you spread low and wide and grapple from there...

I dont like the grapple as i not very strong upstairs, i prefer to elbow as they come in to grab my fat head... but i was training with a lad of eastern european origin the other day and he showed me to very nifty ways to change the cllinch into your favour, and well i can safetly say i wont be getting thrown about like a rag doll any more....

keep at it gerry mate, and throw caution to the wind and get in there and have a fight or 15

Dave Joyce

Fair play Gerry keep up the good work!! If you're 6', are most of these guys underhooking you prior to most throws? I know most of the really good guys can throw from nearly any position, but if you're that tall in comparison to them I presume they're underhooking you a lot. If thats the case try either getting one underhook on them or try working both elbows/forearms down inside their clinch (it'll be sore on them and might piss them off a little so be prepared). When you relax try to feel for when they look to push/pull and as Wayne said go with it and turn full circle rather than fight it. But by going back and continually working on it you'll get their respect. One other word of advice BUT try this after training is try having a word with one of the coaches on the finer points. I always found most Thai trainers very willing to share knowledge even if you've difficulty understanding what they're trying to get across:o

Funnily enough Paddy mentioned Diamond heart which Jaipetch and is what Craig O'Flynns girlfriend Vanni said his name was in Thailand.

Mikel

What was it that Colm or Fianna said on another thread? Head and Hips?
Best of luck and good training!

MaxBax

hmm.

i'll just say, just keep at it and it will all sort it's self out in ur head. you can't learn balance, it will just come to you (or if you're really unlucky, it won't).

Millionaire

Thanks all. some great info here to try out!

each day I am getting better and better.

Still just doing the one session a day. + running.

Starting to get fit now, so will be hitting the morning call next week..and some weights.

Its amazing without the traffic jams of ireland, and all that how much free time there is to train. and I still work 10 - 12 hours a day!

Bridgestone Man

Hi Gerry,

Sounds like you having a good time, hope none of those guys you are clinching are ladyboys, Ha, Ha,.

Yeah, as the other lads said just try to pick up all the tricks by looking or asking. As for when you in the clinch over their as Fianna said just try to relax and as RedRaven said never let go.

Clinch and knee are my favourite part of thai as being an over the hill old, fat and unfit thai'st (Inchicore slang) I dont have to be throwing punches and kicks etc which I find very tiring these days. One main thing in clinch work is be sensitive to your partner (that dont mean crying if you hurt him:o ). If you stay relaxed you should feel any slight change in weight distribution which can give you warning of whats coming or to which direction hes going to try throw you or side a knee is coming and you can then take action to counter. The more you do this the more sensitive you will become to what your partner to trying to do. This as usual is learnt over time and experience. But stay relaxed or your sensitivity goes out the window.

But always remember whatever they do to you keep smiling all the time. They hate and respect that at the same time.:D

Cheers,
PK.

Arnagan

Hi Guys
Can I ask some of you experienced Clinch fighters for help?

Go right ahead.

Can you give me some ideas, tips, tricks, etc for stand up clinch strategy.
These little thai fighters are throwing me all over the place like a rag doll.
As I said in my Thailand Thread, this camp is known for clinch work.
They do alot of practice each day on the clinch, clinch and knees sparring, and I am in there working with the best of them which is great.
They tied me up and can slam dunk me on my head.

Well if you've never;
a) wrestled a season or more
b) played Judo a season or more
c) trained with these Mui Tai dudes for a season or more, then
ur experiencing what is really par for the course. Just try and picture some dimwitted American that thinks football is played with a helmet joining ur Fitbu league. Then imagine him asking a bunch of people on line if they can give him any tips as to how to handle the ball better when he competes against u guys.
Ole dimwitted Americans only real chance is, u got it. Practice practice practice.

So what can a man do to stop himself from me thrown.

Stay on his feet.

They bear hug tight into me and can throw me real easy.

Don't let them get in so tight.

Arnagan

RedRaven wrote:

The head can be used as a steering wheel so use the base of the skull as a lever.

Where the head goes the b ody follows.

Millionaire

Its coming together more now.

One of the fighters, started to show me techniques for the clinch work.
now I can see how their throwing me all over the place.

They have specific techniques, that they've practiced millions of times.

Other than that, I feel like carp, had a feed of that Chang beer last night.
horrible hang over!

Dave Joyce

If ya think the hangover is bad from beer Chang, wait until you've had (and you will have ) one from Singha. Btw Gerry make sure you try some Mekhong whiskey over there. Its lovely stuff and only about 2euro a bottle. Mind you hangovers and clinchwork are NOT a good combination:p

RedRaven

Millionaire wrote:

Its coming together more now.

One of the fighters, started to show me techniques for the clinch work.
now I can see how their throwing me all over the place.

They have specific techniques, that they've practiced millions of times.

Other than that, I feel like carp, had a feed of that Chang beer last night.
horrible hang over!

Lets see some photos my man!!!

Millionaire

Shall get some photos this week.

Back on schedule now. no training yesterday... some buddhist holiday.

Oh had the Singna hang over too! will give the Mekong a miss... Mekong would be bad bad news!!

The retired fighters who do not train now nor teach hang around about the camp, drinking Mekong any chance they get!

paddyc

The retired fighters who do not train now nor teach hang around about the camp, drinking Mekong any chance they get!

thats a bit like me in the bridgestone gym