I'm having trouble here

breadmonkey

I only play home games and low buy in STTs online but I've noticed a trend in both: some people just will not fold to a reraise if they have already limped. I think they feel slightly p!ssed that they've been raised or something.

Example:
Home game the other night. I am dealth AKo in the BB. UTG limps (could literally have any two cards), as do 2 others including the SB. I raise 4*BB, UTG calls after stalling for a while-he has fúck all, everyone else folds. Flop is a load of semiconnected rainbow blanks so I bet out another 4*BB. He reraises all in. I fold, knowing he could have hit anything. He shows 75s for a straight.

That's just an example, but I find players like this online all the time. I know I should be building the pot so I maximise in the event that I hit, but I have no idiea what to do when I hit because it's impossible to put these guys on a hand.

Thought?

ollyk1

raise more?

limp with AK and only bet flops you hit?

Don't bluff.

Edit:
"Flop is a load of semiconnected rainbow blanks so I bet out another 4*BB. He reraises all in. I fold, knowing he could have hit anything."

If this is something you do regularly I can understand why he calls you with any two cards.

staringelf

breadmonkey wrote:

I only play home games and low buy in STTs online but I've noticed a trend in both: some people just will not fold to a reraise if they have already limped. I think they feel slightly p!ssed that they've been raised or something.

Example:
Home game the other night. I am dealth AKo in the BB. UTG limps (could literally have any two cards), as do 2 others including the SB. I raise 4*BB, UTG calls after stalling for a while-he has fúck all, everyone else folds. Flop is a load of semiconnected rainbow blanks so I bet out another 4*BB. He reraises all in. I fold, knowing he could have hit anything. He shows 75s for a straight.

That's just an example, but I find players like this online all the time. I know I should be building the pot so I maximise in the event that I hit, but I have no idiea what to do when I hit because it's impossible to put these guys on a hand.

Thought?

i notice this a lot too....even at high buy in sng's where you would think players have some concept of pot odds or realising when they're behind.

i've recently taken to limping a lot more with hands like AK, AQ and tens and jacks (and all pairs lower than tens for set value). i know this will cause the odd problem of hitting my TPTK and letting the SB/BB in for a cheap 2 pair to bust me or take a load of my stack but i don't think it happens often enough for it to be a bad strategy.

with limping tens and jacks, if all undercards come i can be reasonably sure i'm ahead (as QQ-AA would surely have raised behind me preflop to get the cheap limpers out). i hate raising these two hands as a Q, K or A invariably comes and god knows some tool is playing K8o from early position.

in the later blind levels i'll raise and then push any flop with hands like AK, AQ (or simply just push preflop) as you can't really afford to raise PF, make a continuation bet and then fold to pressure.

you might try min raising also preflop. i usually hate this play (a lot of poor players make it - especially with big pairs or AK) but you'd be surprised how many will fold to a min raise but call otherwise. at least you don't invest too much and can lay it down if they come over the top after the flop...

its hard to know i guess. i just wouldn't get too busy with AK (which is A high post flop) in early levels. a lot of people are willing to gamble then and even to a crappy pair of fives you're a slight dog.

one main advantage to limping AK/AQ is that it lets in other muppets who want to splash about with Ax and can't lay it down when an ace hits and they can't really put you on AK as you just limped. that can be quite rewarding.

there are obvious flaws with limping these big hands and i'm sure dan harrington would cringe at the thought of min raising from early position with AK but overall i think its a viable strategy as long as you know how to throw it away to pressure.

breadmonkey

Thanks, that was very helpful.

ianmc38

TBH i cant advocate limping with TT, JJ, AK or AQs more than 10-30% of the time. these are big hands and should be bet accordingly. If you are throwing away AK everytime on a 256 rainbow flop then there is something seriously wrong. If i played with you and noticed this trend, i'd put you all-in everytime as we'd both know the outcome. Mix your game up a little, change the size of your raise dynamically. Raise 3xBB, 4xBB, 5XBB and even 6xBB. Throw ins ome limps and some limp-raises. The more you mix it up, the more these guys will be second guessing what you have and hence making erros and eventually giving you their chips...

Gholimoli

I take it this is a tourney and not a cash game as im sure the appropriate advice would be different for each:
In relation to tourney play, it’s wrong to limp with AK or AA or KK and other hands.
The fact that your opponents are refusing to fold when you raise does not change this. the more you know your opponents are likely to call your raises with trash the more you should be inclined to raise pre-flop. Your mate may hit his str every now and then but more often that not he will not and he will cost him self a lot of chips in the long run.
The reason why you raise pre-flop is not just to build a pot but also to thin the field .your AK ,AA ,KK play well against one or two opponents but as the number of your opponents increases your chances of wining with them decreases.
For example, if you just limp with AK, and the flop is A 2 8 there is a very good chance of some one on the hand with A2 or A8.however had you raised that hand they would have folded.
Having said that, you do need to develop your post flop play. In the example you gave, you raised 4BB with AK pre-flop and the flop was all rags and you missed, well in this case knowing that villain is likely to have rags, there is no need to bet another 4BB.