Attn Guitar people - Whiskey In The Jar - revamped

Great Baldini

Hi All

Any Thin Lizzy fans lurking around might enjoy hearing my re-vamped instrumental trad.arr of "Whiskey In The Jar"........

http://rapidshare.de/files/12222048/...jan06.mp3.html


Any comments / feedback welcome !

Cheers

Paul

Ken-Byrne

sounds great!!! especially the effects over it! what effects were you usin for the guitar? i can make out a slight delay nothin else...

miju

hey baldini, please dont post links to copyrighted music, regardlesses of who has recorded it, the music doesnt belong to you and is against boards rules

thanks

Great Baldini

Hi Miji

"Whiskey In The Jar" is "trad arr". As far as I'm aware that means that the piece is not copyright. Feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong.
The piece is a significant re-working of this familiar folk song. I'd be interested to hear what you think of it.
Thanks

GB

I'll leave this one up to miju.....

Great Baldini

Hi all

I contacted IMRO this morning to clarify this matter objectively. It raised a very interesting question and I am glad that Miju raised it so we have an opportunity to clarify such situations.

I am copying the correspondence below.

Miju, the Board's committment to protecting music copyright is commendable howver I believe a little misguided in this situation.

I would invite you to contact IMRO yourself if you have any unaddressed concerns having reviewed the correspondence below.

I would suggest that one lesson to be learned is that not all un-original music is copyrighted. "Trad Arr" licences people to keep traditional music (albeit in rock format) alive by allowing it evolve and breathing new life into it. We should be thankful for it otherwise our great tradition of sharing our Irish culture musically would be quickly killed off. Great works (like Thin Lizzy's "Black Rose" for example) could never exist.

Secondly Miju, I found the the tone of your comment below ("the music doesn't belong to you") offensive personally. I think you could have PM'd me before posting that comment as I would have been happy to clarify the situation. It smacks of a heavy-handed power trip to be honest.

Thirdly, the statement that the music doesn't belong to me is in fact not correct - "trad arr" confers ownership for such music on us all. What you hear in this piece is my original arrangement of a traditional air.

I trust that all is in order and you will restore the link you prematurely removed yesterday.

If you decide not to restore the link (which again is your perogative), I would invite people to pick up the link at the www.thin-lizzy.com discussion forum where I am glad to say, the piece is receiving very favorable reviews.

Thanks

Paul


************************************
Mail to IMRO Legal Dept.
Email address: info@imro.ie

Hi
I wonder if you could help me. I have devised an original arrangement of "Whiskey In The Jar" (as far as I know an old Irish folk song which was recorded by Thin Lizzy circa 1972). Their recording was described as "trad arr - Thin Lizzy". I'm not sure what that term means legally but my understanding is that it means that this is a folk song and can be freely re-arranged / re-interpreted / re-recorded etc.

Would you mind clarifying this question for me ?

many thanks

regards

Paul

********************************************
Response from IMRO

Hi Paul,

Your understanding is absolutely correct in relation to this.

When a work is 'Trad Arr' or in the public domain (when a composer is deceased 70 years +) a writer may compose his arrangement of the work in question.

The composer may also then register that work with IMRO, where it constitutes a new arrangement.

Hope this helps,

---

Quality Assurance Team
IMRO - Irish Music Rights Organisation
Copyright House, Pembroke Row, Lower Baggot Street, Dublin 2, IRELAND
Telephone +353-1-661 4844; Fax +353-1-661 3789

---

miju

Great Baldini wrote:

Miju, the Board's committment to protecting music copyright is commendable howver I believe a little misguided in this situation.

it's never misguided when it comes to protecting boards from any potential legal issues

Great Baldini wrote:

Secondly Miju, I found the the tone of your comment below ("the music doesn't belong to you") offensive personally. I think you could have PM'd me before posting that comment as I would have been happy to clarify the situation. It smacks of a heavy-handed power trip to be honest.

you must be very thin skinned because the fact of the matter is that it isn't yours unless your the original author of whiskey in the jar. as for the power trip comment it's quite laughable if it was a power trip i would have just deleted the thread

Great Baldini wrote:

Thirdly, the statement that the music doesn't belong to me is in fact not correct - "trad arr" confers ownership for such music on us all. What you hear in this piece is my original arrangement of a traditional air.

I trust that all is in order and you will restore the link you prematurely removed yesterday.

i'm just waiting for a buddy in IRMA rather than IMRO to clarify that for me because it's something i've not come across before and then i'll happily restore the link if all is in order naturally.

Great Baldini

Re: "i'm just waiting for a buddy in IRMA rather than IMRO to clarify that for me because it's something i've not come across before and then i'll happily restore the link if all is in order naturally."

Great - then we should be all done hopefully. Let me know how it pans out.

Thanks again

PaulO

MagnumForce

"i'm just waiting for a buddy in IRMA rather than IMRO to clarify that for me because it's something i've not come across before and then i'll happily restore the link if all is in order naturally."

I think IMRO, an organisation which deals with these matters on a daily basis would know just as much as IRMA, its their job to know these things.

And traditional arrangments are most definitly public domain, its a well known fact.

However, if Great Baldini used any clips or samples from Thin Lizzy's version, that im fairly sure would be a breach of copyright. having not heard the track yet, i dont know if he has or not

Great Baldini

Thanks MF - I agree.

I guess its unchartered territory for a lot of people so some misunderstanding is to be expected.

/Paul

miju

link reposted, crisis averted and all's well on the good ship boards

oh and magnum the reason i contacted IRMA is because its always good to have a second opinion to be sure, to be sure and they'd be more likely to take issue with it as well

Great Baldini

Thanks Miju - fair play all round.

I think we're all a little wiser now on how to approach "trad. arr" material. I must say I didn't anticipate the discussion but it was constructive and useful all round and no harm has been done. The good ship is still afloat !!!

Now back to the real business - hope you like the arrangement !!

Cheers all

PaulO

JMArr

Paulo ..can you repost the link it dont seem to be workin bro

Great Baldini

Hi JMarr

Will do - will send you PM !

PaulO




May Silhouettes Rule The Planet :eek:

sinjin_smythe

yeah ill have a listen too baldini !

Great Baldini

http://rapidshare.de/files/12222048/PaulO_s_Whiskey_30jan06.mp3.html

Lads - heres the link - I just checked it - seems to be in order.

Hope it works for you.......

MagnumForce

Sounds pretty sweet. im loving the delay and reverb, gives it a great atmosphere. what set up did you use to record it? and also, what guitar(s) are you using?

Great Baldini

Hi MagnumForce

Guitar into Zoom G2 set to model Marshall '2000 head into my PC sound card
Recording Software: Magix
Drums, bass + keyboards done on Yamaha PSR255 keyboard.

I used no modulation fx. There are 3 main guitar tracks. The chunky rhythm part was recorded with a very short slap back delay and tight room reverb (from the G2). My intention was to simulate near & far field miking. The combination of delays and reverb with playing vibrato / tremolo creating a natural chorus effect.

Main melody & counter melody recorded with a little longer delay. As far as I remember they are panned approc 50% L&R with reverb and a little delay used on one side and delay with less reverb on the other.

I ran the improvised lead line at the end of the piece through a pretty long reverb patch that came with the recording software as I wanted it to sound more distant and spacious.

When I was happy with where everything was sitting in the mix level-wise I bounced it down. I then put the final mix through parametric eq giving a slight boost at 50Hz and approx. 13kHz. i.e. a very slight post-mix "smiley" eq.

I then layered over sampled atmospheric sound effects - thunder, rain, jet landing etc.

I used my customised Ernie Ball Silhouette Special (HSS) to record the guitar parts. The tone control was by-passed with a Seymour Duncan custom custom in the bridge and SD hot rails in the neck & mid positions.

Thanks for the feedback Magnum ! Much appreciated.

/Paul

Great Baldini

All

There may be problems with the download link. If you want to hear the piece and cannot download from rapidshare, please PM me and I'll see about getting it to you some other way.

Thanks

PaulO