Rail rant

This is probably my "nerdiest" post ever on boards.ie but just wanted to make a few points.

I took the 13:10 train from Dublin Heuston to Tralee last Friday. After reaching the platform I noticed the train was Mark 1 Cravens stock (1960s). I had to ask if it was the right train, alas it was. So I thought "this will be funny, 1960s transport in 2006."
I got on the train and sat down with a very nice girl who kept me amused for a lot of the journey. I was sitting in the dining car... only there was no service there. The "dining" service was at the front of the train... a guy in an IE uniform with a Thermos box and tea/coffee dispensers.
The train arrived in Tralee at about 17:15 or so. I got off and walked up towards the station exit. The locomotive pulling this antique stock was 071, 1976 vintage. And it still cost me €60 for the ticket, even though the service was manky compared to the usual Mark 3's.

Typical Ireland... most other countries would have scrapped this muck by now. Even the Mark 3's, while dated (1980s), are still quite comfy and I have no problem with them. At least they have air conditioning and a dining car that's used for its intended purpose. A wider selection of foods and the ability to get plastered if you see fit.

End of rant, suppose I'm now gonna get PMs slagging me off for knowing the lingo, lol.

Sarsfield

Some people (mainly spotters from England) would pay extra for that sort of service. And even more for being amused by a nice girl

parsi

I still think the original MarkII (Supertrain) were the comfiest. And I'm quite partial to the 071s. I think the MarkIIIs are muck.

Up to last year one of the most reliable DB locos was the Class103 which dated from the early 1970s so age doesn't really matter.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ny8h-ky/db-page/e103.htm

jd

Karsini wrote:

The locomotive pulling this antique stock was 071, 1976 vintage.

I like the 071s.:) I heard that though the max speed is meant to be 90 mph, some guy got fired from Irish Rail for driving one at some mad speed-something over 120 mph I think..

Transport21 Fan

with the concrete sleepers it just causes the vibration and sound levels on the cravens to be terrible. They are junk and should have been scrapped years ago.

But fear not, when the Western Rail COrridor opens all the problems on the rail network will be solved. In fact, I predict that global warming will be reversed and that all nations and races will live toghether side by side in peace.

So there is no point in worrying about problems with the exsisting rail network. Once that single line tramway is reopened to Claremorris all will be perfect...and Ireland will have the most amazing rail network in the world.

Litcagral

jd wrote:

some guy got fired from Irish Rail ..

I thought that was virtually impossible!

jd

jd wrote:

I like the 071s.:) I heard that though the max speed is meant to be 90 mph, some guy got fired from Irish Rail for driving one at some mad speed-something over 120 mph I think..

lol, crazy! I don't particularly mind the 071 locomotives, just that they've probably done a few million miles by now. But 075 was the one involved in the Buttevant crash so I'm not sure I'd feel comfy going on a train hauled by it. :eek

Transport21 Fan

Transport21 Fan wrote:

with the concrete sleepers it just causes the vibration and sound levels on the cravens to be terrible. They are junk and should have been scrapped years ago.

That's it. And they can feel really stuffy inside too.

MarkoP11

The 13:10 is supposed to be a air conditioned Mk2 (no spring chicken and also heading for the scrap heap in 2007), its not meant to have full catering just the trolley, you should have got the 13:00 to Cork if you wanted full meals and changed at Mallow. The cravens (vastly more advanced than a MK1 in design) finally are to be withdrawn this month only 8 years later than planned. All other Tralee line services are now railcar operated or MK3 and will be replaced with brand new kit in 2007/8

There doesn't exist a craven dining car there is a single snack car somewhere (nerd pt 1)

End of the day the issue is

Clapped out 1960's train Vs No train at all

Thats the problem if there was another way I'd be more than happy to call for necks in IE but unfortunately there currently is no other solution and the replacement kit is ordered. The fundamental problem is the DoT won't hand over cash until things get really bad they won't put the cash up in time (about three years in advance) Thats a recurring issue through the years unless the DoT get a good boot where it hurts they won't shift, generally a good accident releases the money, its sad but there is clear historical trend.

I wouldn't slag off a 071 class its only 3 years older than the first batch of TGV's and they are the most reliable going. Age sometimes isn't a good indicator of reliability old and simple is frequency best. If you wanted to be a real nerd you would have mentioned the missing lateral hydraulic dampers on the cravens

This one did have a dining car, I was sitting in it. One half was ordinary seats while the other had an area with "Cafeteria" above the window where you'd buy stuff.

I guess it comes down to one thing... living in the ***hole of nowhere. If I was on the main line between Dublin and Cork I'd have more options.

NavanJunction1

Karsini wrote:

I guess it comes down to one thing... living in the ***hole of nowhere. If I was on the main line between Dublin and Cork I'd have more options.

I live in Navan and we don't even have that.. Not centre of the universe but not exactly the middle of nowhere either.. Not with the population growth in the last 7 years anyway! Navan is regarded as a suburb of Dublin these days.

Give me any of the rolling stock IÉ still have these days and I'd be happy.:) As long as it moves faster than road traffic and gets me to Dublin in less than 2 hours.

MarkoP11

Karsini wrote:

This one did have a dining car, I was sitting in it. One half was ordinary seats while the other had an area with "Cafeteria" above the window where you'd buy stuff.

Its number 1508 its referred to as the snack car

On a related matter the new intercity train (may) appear tomorrow
http://forum.platform11.org/showthread.php?p=2000

Litcagral

Karsini wrote:

I guess it comes down to one thing... living in the ***hole of nowhere. If I was on the main line between Dublin and Cork I'd have more options.

If you were living in Donegal you would be waiting a long time for any train.

Yeah, guess it could be worse. I'll say no more.

Slice

But fear not, when the Western Rail COrridor opens all the problems on the rail network will be solved.

That's right, all the old rolling stock will be consigned to the WRC once it opens and the rest of us won't have to worry anymore

MarkoP11

Slice wrote:

That's right, all the old rolling stock will be consigned to the WRC once it opens and the rest of us won't have to worry anymore

Afraid not as they will have to nick suburban trains designed for Dublin to run the service. Thats said if they want to live in a dream world they can have the 1960's stuff there won't be many passengers to complain anyway north of Athenry

MarkoP11

MarkoP11 wrote:

Afraid not as they will have to nick suburban trains designed for Dublin to run the service.

That's what's being done on the Mallow - Tralee route as the replacement for the Cravens. Just don't really think they're suited though, its hardly a short distance trip.

KC61

The Cravens stock are due to be withdrawn from use in the coming weeks once the final deliveries of 29000 railcars arrive and are cleared for service. These will displace sufficient Mark 2 rolling stock off the Sligo route to replace the Cravens in Heuston.

The Class 2700 railcars will remain on Mallow-Tralee until the arrival of the new regional railcars during 2007. Unfortunately there is little else that can be used to operate these services. Local groups in Kerry demanded the removal of Cravens stock from the route, and IE have delivered on that. The only alternative was the 2700 class which are now operating the route.

Capt'n Midnight

Well Rail carriges/locos have a design life of 30 years so seeing 1970's gear is not really all that Suprising. Anyone know how old is the oldest tram in Lisbon is/was ?

Buses appear to have a lower capital cost paper because someone else pays for the road, and they have a much shorter life. Anyone have comparison costs for replacing buses over 30 years including road tax and maintainace Vs. similar for rolling stock ?

MarkoP11

jd wrote:

I like the 071s.:) I heard that though the max speed is meant to be 90 mph, some guy got fired from Irish Rail for driving one at some mad speed-something over 120 mph I think..

The 117mph guy got fired after a group of passengers timed the train, Thurles 1976??
The 124mph guy did it under the supervision of the engineers, during the MK3 high speed tests during May 1984 while in the Curragh curves

General Motors as a result started to pull their hair out as the bogie frames started to crack and CIE's engineers had a bit of a problem as the pressure pulses started to dislodge tunnel and bridge linings

People are obsessed with new is best, the folks in Sligo aren't so happy with there new trains, many would rather travel on the more comfortable if so slightly elderly MK2 coaches

JackieChan

Marko,
Any idea when the 17:15 Heuston to Athlone will switch from Cravens?
Will it go to 29000 or to the Mark II's from Sligo line?
I remember when that route started in 2003 it initially had a commuter train(2600/2700 or similar) and the first evening I had to stand for about 1 hour the ratling from the engine had my knees sore the following day!It wasn't long before it was replaced by Cravens.

MarkoP11

17:15 should MK2d by the end of the month, 8 more 29000 railcars appeared last week and only 8 more to go, that releases the Sligo line pair of MK2 sets

What IE actually will do remains to be seen but the Cravens will all be gone by March 1st. The first of the new Cork Dublin trains is due in service either today or in the next week or so

The Crazy Horse

MarkoP11 wrote:

The first of the new Cork Dublin trains is due in service either today or in the next week or so

Is it? Where did you get the information from. I understood early March was the in-service date.

SeanW

Our (Sligo Line) Mk2ds aren't life expired at all, I suspect, some lucky feckers ex-Heuston are going to get them and we're going to get 29K Commuter trains as the only trains in everyday mainline service >_<

Whoever it is, they're in for a treat because our Mk2ds are in relatively good shape.

MarkoP11

We got a call late on Sunday indicating a strong possibility from a reliable source. Having spoken to management perviously a date of late Jan early Feb was quoted so everything fitted together.

It hasn't appeared yet but there are several on test running up an down at the moment, the 5th set arrives this week

The Crazy Horse

I say they hoped they have 2 sets in for the timetable change in Dec but I suppose that all went out the window when the cow decided it had enough with its miserable life and decided a MK4 set would be a good way to go with a bang!

trainuser

trainuser wrote:

The Cravens stock are due to be withdrawn from use in the coming weeks once the final deliveries of 29000 railcars arrive and are cleared for service. These will displace sufficient Mark 2 rolling stock off the Sligo route to replace the Cravens in Heuston.

The Class 2700 railcars will remain on Mallow-Tralee until the arrival of the new regional railcars during 2007. Unfortunately there is little else that can be used to operate these services. Local groups in Kerry demanded the removal of Cravens stock from the route, and IE have delivered on that. The only alternative was the 2700 class which are now operating the route.

Or the MK3s using 071 class locomotives when the new stock comes in. Why not?

KC61

Karsini wrote:

Or the MK3s using 071 class locomotives when the new stock comes in. Why not?

Sorry to disappoint you Karsini, but when the new hourly Dublin-Cork express service starts (probably in December 2006) the Mark 3 sets displaced will be required to operate a new bi-hourly stopping service from Dublin to Limerick which will connect with the Cork expresses at Thurles.

Tralee will (hopefully) regain the direct morning service from Dublin and afternoon return. However, I would view it as highly unlikely that the 2700s will be displaced until the new Intercity Railcars arrive in 2007/08.