MTT final table QQ in the blinds

fuzzbox

100+9 MTT. 112 entrants, final table.

8 players remain, and you are one of the two chip leads with 22000 chips.

Villain has just recently moved from 3k to 15k on a mad surge of double-up action.

Blinds 500/1000
Villain opens UTG for a minraise. I have never seen him minraise from any position before.
Its folded around to hero with two red Queens in the Big Blind.

Hero folds.

How do you like that?

Norwich Fan Rob

if u are sure he has a bigger pair and u are both big stack, u can call a min raise for 1 more BB and have excellent implied odds to stack him if u hit a set

willis

fuzzbox wrote:

How do you like that?

I dont

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

100+9 MTT. 112 entrants, final table.

8 players remain, and you are one of the two chip leads with 22000 chips.

Villain has just recently moved from 3k to 15k on a mad surge of double-up action.

Blinds 500/1000
Villain opens UTG for a minraise. I have never seen him minraise from any position before.
Its folded around to hero with two red Queens in the Big Blind.

Hero folds.

How do you like that?

Sounds like you've got some serious explaining to do fuzz...

valor

uh..

Lafortezza

Constructive replies only please!

I'm trying to see the reasons that you won't even call the min-raise to hit a Q on the flop, if Villain has AA or KK then you're implied odds must be good enough.
The double ups that Villain has had in the last few hands, what cards has he been playing?

That said, it's just another hand in a tournament, so maybe if it doesn't feel right....

Culchie

Would villan be so obvious to min raise with a higher pair ?

I think a re-raise to 5K will give you an answer, (or sock it to him .... fecking min raises annoy me) ... but I think a re-raise is the play I'd make.

sunzz

horrible laydown. just becuase it's the first time he's done it all night does not mean he has anything. He could easily have muck and thinks, well I ain't min-raised at all maybe it will get him off the hand, it's only costing you another bb to call, your chip stack will still be fine, it's the final table you have a chance to bust him if you hit a q (if he's even on AA/KK) im re-raising here to see where i stand.

Ste05

Culchie wrote:

Would villan be so obvious to min raise with a higher pair ?

I think a re-raise to 5K will give you an answer, (or sock it to him .... fecking min raises annoy me) ... but I think a re-raise is the play I'd make.

I was thinking exactly this myself, but then I thought, he'll pretty much always call or go All-In and then you really don't know where you are and if he calls you're out of position with little info on the inevitable sub Q high flop. :mad: If he folds you win very little from your good hand.

I think I'd call and lead out for 4k on any flop without an A in it. But I certainly wouldn't let the table see I fold my BB to a min raise even from UTG.

I also think it looks like the guy is on a rush and is just trying to keep it going.

Bozzer

Only way you folded this was if you misclicked.

fuzzbox

sunzz wrote:

horrible laydown. just becuase it's the first time he's done it all night does not mean he has anything. He could easily have muck and thinks, well I ain't min-raised at all maybe it will get him off the hand, it's only costing you another bb to call, your chip stack will still be fine, it's the final table you have a chance to bust him if you hit a q (if he's even on AA/KK) im re-raising here to see where i stand.

A question for you (and those others who advocate "raising to see where I stand").

How much do you reraise?
4k ? 5k? 6k?

Lets say you choose 6k.

If villain pushes ... there will be villains 15k + your 6k + SB (500) = 21500. You would have to call 9000 in order to win 21500. If villain will only push with AA/KK or AK you are 3:2 to win. Here you get 21:9, or 2.3:1, which is the right odds to call. Thus, if you re-raise you will have to call a push.

If you reraise, and villain just calls, then you are now oop and there is 12500 in the middle.

If the flop comes 732r ... you have 15000, left, villain has 9000 left, and there is 12500 in the middle. Is there any other move than shove?

Reraising a small amount does not help us (in my opinion) ... unless villain folds (of course). We havent cleared the mud by a small reraise.

RoundTower

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

if u are sure he has a bigger pair and u are both big stack, u can call a min raise for 1 more BB and have excellent implied odds to stack him if u hit a set

I would call instantly with 55 here. Of course it's a lot harder to fold QQ on a small flop, but if you really think his raise means QQ-AA, you can fold unimproved on the flop.

fuzzbox

Ok, I did not really fold.

I set my opponent all-in and he called with AA and it stood up (the flop was AK4). I guess if I called that I could have gotten away on that flop for cheap, but if the flop is low cards ... it would be hard for me to lay it down.

An utg minraise (or limp) in online MTTs sets my alarm bells off, especially if its out of character for a player. Normally I do not try to steal these limps/minraises with kinda marginal hands (like AT or AJ), and I often just give them a wide berth, until I see the villain doing it a few times (meaning its not just AA/KK).

If a player normally comes in for a 3x raise, then suddenly limps or minraises UTG ... then its bad.

Of course, if he had made it 3x, then I would have pushed just the same.

So my question really is - am I doomed in this spot with my stupid QQ?

I was chip lead at that moment, and subsequently went out in 7th, when I ran into AA yet again.

Bah humbug.