Taking money from wages!

thror

Hi there,

Just wanted to check if anyone knows of any legislation that covers something like this...

I work part-time in a convenience shop (spar/centra/mace type place), basically just to cover myself while at college. Last week some money was missing from my till when I finished for the day, and nobody knows where it went. Obviously it could have been me messing up on my till all day (it was a long shift) or someone could have taken it. However, I'm not denying that it probably was my fault at the end of the day, I was responsible for my till being short.

Now, however, the shop are saying that they are going to take the money that was missing out of my wages. I basically feel that if they do this, it is basically tantamount to accusing me of stealing the money. I would prefer that they call the guards or give me a verbal warning or something because I feel that if they take the money out of my wages and I just let them, I am therefore admitting that I took it! surely there must be some law against taking deductions from someones earnings?

I'd appreciate any help on this!
Thanks for reading.

Clinical Waste

http://www.finfacts.com/Private/personel/irishemployrights.htm

Its all in here.

Page 17,18,19 should cover you.

0utshined

I haven't even read the link posted but there is no way they are entitled to take the missing money from your wages. If they are the type of operation that would do that I'd seriously consider that my tax and PRSI contributions were in order as well.

Ninja edit : Where exactly was that meant to link to Clinical Waste? I can't find a page 17,18 or 19.

Our man in Havana

Download the Labour law guide 2005 and go page 33.

Litcagral

http://www.entemp.ie/publications/employment/2005/guidetolabourlaw05.pdf

Victor

If the till is up will they share it out?

Some industries have sepcific agreements about shortages, but this is your boss on the scam.

Clinical Waste

0utshined wrote:

I haven't even read the link posted but there is no way they are entitled to take the missing money from your wages. If they are the type of operation that would do that I'd seriously consider that my tax and PRSI contributions were in order as well.

Ninja edit : Where exactly was that meant to link to Clinical Waste? I can't find a page 17,18 or 19.

Sorry, crap link. You have to click on Employment Rights Publications, and from that page choose the Guide to Payment of Wages pdf.
(I thought the link went right thru but it doesn't)

It explains valid and restricted deductions from wages including till shortages.

mikemac

Payment of Wages Act 1991

Pop into your local Citizens Advice Centre if you've any questions. I've found them very useful any time I've used them

homah_7ft

They are allowed to make such a deduction if it's stated in your contract otherwise they are not. Check your contract.

the_syco

Clinical Waste wrote:

You have to click on Employment Rights Publications, and from that page choose the Guide to Payment of Wages pdf.

http://www.entemp.ie/publications/employment/2002/paymentofwages.pdf

elvis2002

homah_7ft wrote:

They are allowed to make such a deduction if it's stated in your contract otherwise they are not. Check your contract.

surely the contract would be illegal then?

homah_7ft

No the contract would be perfectly legal since the bottom line is that they are allowed make a deduction as described. Obviously it would have to be reasonable and you would have to know that such a deduction exists.

TheMonster

Just because something is in a contract does not mean its legal. contracts also have to be fair.

thror

Thanks for the help guys!

I'm working later on today and will ask for a copy of my contract (I'm such a dope - i didn't insist on a copy when I started) but I seem to remember that the manager took me through the contract at the time and there was no mention of being able to take money from my wages. Also, even though they said that they would take the money from my wages this week they gave me no written notification, which means by the law that you gave me up there ^^ they can't legally take it - this week at least. There is more complications to the story that point to the money being "acquirede" by somebody else and not me, so by god, I'll argue till the cows come home - I'm not taking accusations like that!

One further thing - has anyone else noticed how up themselves most owners of convenience stores and such like are?! It seems to me that they get a bit of power over people and they think they're a high court judge or something. Granted they have a high turnover of staff, but maybe they should think about WHY they have a high turnover of staff in the first place! Although when you're a student working for them it can definitely spur you on to do better at college - so that someday you can get your own back!
Thanks again.

homah_7ft

Good luck with that. At least you are fighting your corner now.

Victor

thror wrote:

Granted they have a high turnover of staff, but maybe they should think about WHY they have a high turnover of staff in the first place!

Part of this is deliberate, short-term staff don't get promotions.

Zaph0d

Assuming they agree not to deduct the money from your wages, do you feel that you should not have to repay the money if you were responsible for the loss through forgetfulness rather than theft?

funk-you

also make a point that you wont start your shift until you have counted the till yourself at the start and end (also breaks etc...) of your shift. if they are making you responsible for losses you should be entitled to verify the missing cash yourself.

-Funk

thror

Zaph0d wrote:

Assuming they agree not to deduct the money from your wages, do you feel that you should not have to repay the money if you were responsible for the loss through forgetfulness rather than theft?

No, I feel I shouldn't have to. Since this job is VERY low paid, i.e., minimum wage and is my only income, I only get around 130-140 euro a week. Obviously any deductions from this would make a big difference. I just think that businesses like this should realise that there is always going to be human error, unless they've got robots to do the job. What I wouldn't mind would be to be given a verbal/written warning and of course the sack if I repeatedly messed up, but it's only ever happened once - usually my till is perfect.

Let's put it this way - if a "professional" lost a small sum of money for his company through his business methods, do you think it would be acceptable to take it from his salary?