Martin Cullen to address Navan Transport 21 meeting

NavanJunction1

Martin Cullen is to address a Transport 21 meeting in Navan next Monday the 6th on Feb in the Newgrange Hotel, Navan.

Local TD & Minister, Noel Dempsey is organising the meeting, and has also lined up the CIÉ Chairman and the County Manager to respond to concerns over the the timelines in the T21 proposal, in particular the 2015 delivery date for the Navan railway line.

The Meath on Track campaign point out that the T21 announcement for Meath were previously announced under the previous transport plan announced in 2000 called 'A Platform for Change'.

(The timelines in 'A Platform for Change' can be viewed on the homepage at www.meathontrack.com)

Propellerhead

"Dempsey Delivers"

Has anyone tried to wait on the platforms at Navan Station for a train lately?

You'll be waiting.

NavanJunction1

You are right - when I wake up each morning, there is never a train to use.

I'm very surprised that Minister Cullen is venturing to Navan. Apparently, Dempsey is loosing ground in Navan to Fine Gael and Sinn Féin as they have local candidates, and Noel Dempsey is from Trim.

If the local Minister feels under threat, maybe just maybe, there may actually be a delivery yet..

Unfortuantely, they are still peddling the 2015 date.

If you go to www.meathontrack.com there is a document on the front page showing that the Navan rail design work all the way to Navan was promised by 2003. In fact, at the time Noel Dempsey said that 'A Platform for Change' was different from past announcements as quote "this was the first real timescale".

The railway was promised for Dunboyne by 2006, Navan 2010.

strassenwolf

Platform 11 were pursuing the option of running trains between Navan and Dublin via Drogheda. It struck me as very sensible. Probably better to have a Navan-Dunboyne-Dublin line in the longer term but at least that option would be a start for the people of Navan and could be delivered much more quickly. Did anything ever happen with it?

NavanJunction1

strassenwolf wrote:

Platform 11 were pursuing the option of running trains between Navan and Dublin via Drogheda. It struck me as very sensible. Probably better to have a Navan-Dunboyne-Dublin line in the longer term but at least that option would be a start for the people of Navan and could be delivered much more quickly. Did anything ever happen with it?

Nothing. Platform 11 did an excellent job, but politically nobody will go near it. A few years ago local politicians proposed the same thing, but were rediculed because it was a 'long route'. That a 65mins journey time would be brilliant and take traffic off the N2 witha P&R at Beauparc was ignored too. Commuters to Dublin City Centre would kill for a 65min journey time.

There seems to be a long term strategy to let the Drogheda link die. Strange considering that the government are commited to building a new hospital in Drogheda for the region, and that if they maintained the link that the hospital could be built beside the line, increasing capacity.

BTW, there was a piece on LMFM today about the 100 or so cars belonging to commuters parked on N3 hard shoulder in Navan. A woman had her car door torn off by a truck during the week and the hard shoulder is an accident waiting to happen.

One of the councillors on the show said that the Bus Éireann route from Navan was the busiest in the country - the Drogheda piece makes sense. And a P&R on the line to the west of Navan, could literally be a lifesaver..

Re volume on Navan Clonsilla, have a look at this story: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meathontrack/message/128

MarkoP11

Navan Drogheda was rejected by IE on basis of cost not capacity or timetabling as Platform 11 presented a timetable which got 2 trains in[1]. IE's story of lack of capacity is bull its poor timetabling. BTW the park and ride has to be in Duleek as a significant number of people actually live there Beaupark is only a handful of houses

Navan Drogheda could be open in 18 months all in cost would be 50 odd million and the line needs to be upgraded anyway and yes Dublin in 72 minutes was possible. Meath CC gave up when IE said 2 hours which was misleading they where ignorant of what was possible. Its a short term measure until the other more direct Clonsilla route is actually built which is unlikely. Point to note is Navan and Drogheda are two large towns and a regional rail link is not unreasonable

Clonsilla Navan could be open for business in 2011/12[2] if they where bothered in the DoT and there is capacity to take it

On the demand front there is an accepted model from the DTO which is said to be one of the most detailed in Europe which is used and it generally give accurate numbers. IE have there own model based on practical experience of actual usage in the Dublin commuter belt which is put simply 36 people per thousand head of population will board at a suburban station each day which equates to in the future roughly 2000 a day in Navan those figures are possibly on the low side but they are based on real numbers not a imaginary scenario

From the information to hand Martin Cullen was the Minster who authorised a sewer main which obstructs the alignment of the railway through Dunsany[2]. That will have to come up if the line is reopened it should never have happened and was in breach of the dev plan to do so. Thats going to jack the cost up and delay matters which in turn makes a possibility of a reopening even more remote

I'm very concerned by the political moves in Navan which seem to be nothing more than serious backside covering by various people, the facts of the matter don't add up. You don't send down the minister for transport and the head of CIE to talk unless there is something weird afoot

I know the line backwards and there are major issues that the politicians won't touch
The deviation needed through Killmessan
Mention the sewer main will see you removed from the hall
The obstructions on the south side of the Boyne Viaduct (find someone who has walked accross it there aren't many)

If you are going to the meeting get educated and ask the right questions don't have the wool pulled over your eyes

Shameless plug follows
[1]http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/navan/navan_drogheda.php
[2]http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/navan/dunsany.php
[3]http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/navan/delivery.php

NavanJunction1

The comment that Bus Éireann route in Ireland is attribulable to the Mayor of Navan, Shane Cassells apparently..

I wonder if there is anyway of checking this out?

Also, MarkoP11 is correct. Spatial strategy and all of that should justify upgrading the line to Drogheda ad a regional link, never mind as quick-fix to Dublin.

The interesting thing about the Drogheda link is that it could also bring Commuters from Drogheda to Clonsilla / Blanchardstown long term.

It is particularly frustrating that you are not talking about a huge amount of cash in the overall scheme of things for either routes.

Seth Brundle

Can the navan line be built under the current M3 plan?
Wasn't there an issue about where the two meet - the trains would not be able to pass over or under the motorway?

NavanJunction1

The bridge needed at Cannistown was neglected in the M3 plans.

However, an Bord Pleanála stipulated that unless an alternative route was chosen for the railway then the bridge had to go in.

There is still no bridge in the plans, but the M3 is a design and build contract.

Whoever wins it designs it. There will be a bridge or else the builders will contravene the BP ruling.

Hope that helps..It doesn't say anything good about Meath's planners intentions when it comes to the railway. A motorway and a sewerage scheme blocking the route! Doesn't seem like they wanted it opened again!:(

MarkoP11

kbannon wrote:

Can the navan line be built under the current M3 plan?
Wasn't there an issue about where the two meet - the trains would not be able to pass over or under the motorway?

Yes Meath CC decided not to put in a bridge on the basis that it was unreasonable to incur the cost on the basis that there might not be a rail line. What was really suspicious was the total absence of any reference to the location where the M3 and rail line cross in the EIS, it took myself and a colleague most of a Sunday afternoon to scour the M3 EIS and we had to revert to satellite photos to confirm the railway aligment followed by a trip on site to verify everything

Its in the BP rulling, its the last thing on the list of requirements. A drawing of the bridge does exists and will be built

Just shows you Meath CC's attitude

NavanJunction1

The rumour is that Minister Cullen is in Navan to open Minister Dempsey's new constituency office in Navan.

The meeting seems to be a PR stunt to advertise the new office.

Could be wrong, but that's the whispers..

NavanJunction1

Meath CoCo had a meeting with IÉ last Thursday night (06.02.06) where it was agreed that a study all the way to Navan from Dunboyne would be carried out immediately. Cost will be spilt between IÉ and Meath COCO

The study would determine cost, obstacles etc. More meetings being arranged.

More info to follow..

Maskhadov

Are they seriously trying to run down the Drogedha line ?

Not incorportating a bridge in the M3 would be the height of madness and bad planning.

Navan (and as much of the country as possible) needs a rail connection

NavanJunction1

Maskhadov wrote:

Are they seriously trying to run down the Drogedha line?

Last year a Tara Mines train derailed on the Navan viaduct whilst doing less than the 5 mph speed limit. It hit the papapet and sent rubble tumbling to the street below.

Since then they have done some relaying work, but there is a feeling of indifference about the Drogheda line amongst the townfolk and the politicians

NavanJunction1

New uploads of Transport 21 radio interviews.

Worth listening to what Minister Noel Dempsey and IÉ's Barry Kenny say about the railway line.

Because the files are so big, they have been broken down into segments..

They aren't very convincing..

http://www.meathontrack.com/wst_page13.html

Hugh Jampton

Nearly twelve years later, isn’t it remarkable that Navan Rail has been left to die? The one heavy rail project outside the link to Dublin Airport that could have been built without controversy, but wasn’t.

devnull

We don't dig up old threads.

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