poor farmers?

ronbyrne2005

poor farmers!never met one,cutest whoores of the lot.

FARMERS are borrowing so much money they are now believed to be €6bn in debt.

But experts believe that as much as 80pc of what they have borrowed in recent years is going into the purchase of property and other off-farm investments as they make the most of their valuable land holdings to help them generate new sources of income.

Farmers are buying a variety of property, including apartments for children going to college in Dublin, townhouses in nearby towns, as well as equity in overseas developments in the UK and countries like Poland, said Paddy Horgan, head of investment in ACC.

"I have heard the estimate of 80pc of recent borrowings going into off-farm investment, but I don't think it's that high - I'd say it's closer to 50pc," he said.

Some farmers have also bought large farms in such countries as Poland and New Zealand, but Mr Horgan said these were mainly a few high-profile cases as most were opting for non-farming property and equity purchases.

Central Statistics Office figures for 2005 show that farmer interest repayments leapt by 22pc last year to €337m. With average interest rates of 6pc, this would suggest total borrowings of €6bn, up from €5bn in 2004, even though farm output fell in this period.

Property

Central Bank figures show that borrowing for purely agricultural purposes stood at €3.7bn in September 2005 - suggesting that the remaining €2bn of farmer borrowing is tied up in other types of investment.

Some 7pc of farmers said they hoped to invest in overseas property in the next 12 months, according to a recent Bank of Ireland survey of 400 farmers which found average farm borrowings of €134,000.

'Ear to the Ground' throws the spotlight on farmers' finances in tonight's episode on RTE television.

Padraic Cummins, a dairy farmer who appears on the programme, said he has been forced to invest off the farm to make money, purchasing a house in Galway.

"Farms don't give a huge surplus of money. You have to live off it, but if you put all the money back into the farm you'll have nothing but the farm unless you sell it.

Farm prices have never been higher, with prices trebling in the last 15 years, according to the CSO, and farms close to commuting zones are a potential goldmine for their owners.

The biggest sale last year involved €20m for a 1,500-acre farm near Mullingar, Co Westmeath. In general prices range from €7,500 per acre to as much as €30,000 per acre

ronbyrne2005

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Some 7pc of farmers said they hoped to invest in overseas property in the next 12 months, according to a recent Bank of Ireland survey of 400 farmers which found average farm borrowings of €134,000.

So you are making a fuss over 7% of farmers...
Whats your point,that there are some farmers able to do this? Of course there are-but not many.

Padraic Cummins, a dairy farmer who appears on the programme, said he has been forced to invest off the farm to make money, purchasing a house in Galway.

One of the 7% obviously.I know a fireman (Who is also a welder) who has done the same-both probably at the pin of their collar to just about do it in terms of qualifying for the mortgage.

Farm prices have never been higher, with prices trebling in the last 15 years, according to the CSO, and farms close to commuting zones are a potential goldmine for their owners.

The same applies to houses tbh.!5 years ago you would have got a house in the town beside me for €30,000-now its worth €300,000 or a lot more.

The biggest sale last year involved €20m for a 1,500-acre farm near Mullingar, Co Westmeath. In general prices range from €7,500 per acre to as much as €30,000 per acre

That will benefit some , yes
However if everyone sold what would happen to the price of land? yup it would collapse ergo its far from a universal option as it's not as black and white as saying they're rolling in it due to the value of the land.

Every now and again, the people who knock farmers should have their wages halved for a year or two, just so they understand what a collapse is something like the beef sector can do to someone.

I don't know any farmer who doesn't have to have a second job to make ends meet.

Bet not too many of them post here, because they don't have the same time on their hands that we do.

Sure, there is a few making a fortune, perhaps those who have a few acres near a town, or expanses of the Golden Vale. They are few and far between. As for investing in foreign property, most that I know worry if their car will get through the NCT because they can't afford another.

kwinabeeste

Deleted User wrote:

Every now and again, the people who knock farmers should have their wages halved for a year or two, just so they understand what a collapse is something like the beef sector can do to someone.

something like 2/3 or 3/4 of farm income comes from the EU, so if the price of beef fell by half, then farmers would still have 5/6 of 7/8 of their income from before a "beef crash". (1/3 (2/6) from market, if that halved then would only have 1/6 left so add the 2/3). Don't actually think the price of beef falls that dramatically and beef prices are tending to rise.

kwinabeeste

kwinabeeste wrote:

something like 2/3 or 3/4 of farm income comes from the EU, so if the price of beef fell by half, then farmers would still have 5/6 of 7/8 of their income from before a "beef crash".

and 100% of their costs...

Don't actually think the price of beef falls that dramatically and beef prices are tending to rise.

They were very low to the farmer for the past 2 years but this wasnt passed on at the shop (ask the large multiples what they did with your loot)
Beef prices are rising now due to the foot and mouth disease problem in Brazil closing that supply.
But they'd have to be sustained at that price for a couple of years to make up for the years that they were low.

As for the EU funding.
The Beef or corn wouldnt be produced at all without it as the market price paid would not cover the costs.
Wierd but it is the case.
Also there are so many traceability regulations that have to be followed(or no money) that the cost base is always much higher here than in the non EU countries who mostly have little or no traceability regulations at all.

The latest quack regulation is a Nitrate cap where fertilisers spread have to be reduced by half in some cases.
AFair one of the countries award winning farms might have to close as its production couldnt continue with this new rule.
It's supposed to protect water quality apparently yet the evidence of contamination is sparce from what I've seen.
No such regulation exists outside the EU.

Expect most of your food in years to come to be foreign.I dont think thats a good thing.

kwinabeeste

Earthman wrote:

and 100% of their costs...

Point? if their costs remained the same then their "income" would be only slightly affected.

Earthman wrote:

As for the EU funding.
The Beef or corn wouldnt be produced at all without it as the market price paid would not cover the costs.
Wierd but it is the case.

Thats what everybody knows. In the 1980's and early 1990's some farmers farmed the subsidies and not the animals. They maximised the money from Europe by having large numbers of animals. Some farmers were uncompetitive in the production.

Earthman wrote:

Also there are so many traceability regulations that have to be followed(or no money) that the cost base is always much higher here than in the non EU countries who mostly have little or no traceability regulations at all.

True

Earthman wrote:

Expect most of your food in years to come to be foreign.I dont think thats a good thing.

I don't think that is a bad thing and not sure if its will happen for all foods. Irish foood products in europe is mainly used in the catering trade as the other Europeans want to have their own food as they don't trust other countries food. Even still much of the fruit and veg on sale is already foreign and even the milk from Northern Ireland is coming to the Republic.

Some of the new diets call for food to be consumed close to the consumption. This may also impact on Irish exports.

Suff

Earthman wrote:

Expect most of your food in years to come to be foreign.I dont think thats a good thing.

I agree, sure just look at SuperQuinn, since they were bought by Select Retail Holdings, they have introduced more products ok but most of them are from the EU and some are from abroad.
Irish products have decreesed in sales since then
also M&S imports nearly all of its products !

kwinabeeste

kwinabeeste wrote:

Point? if their costs remained the same then their "income" would be only slightly affected.

Reality is different.
Costs on farms rise especially the two biggest ones fuel and labour.

Thats what everybody knows. In the 1980's and early 1990's some farmers farmed the subsidies and not the animals. They maximised the money from Europe by having large numbers of animals. Some farmers were uncompetitive in the production.

Of course they maximised the income from subsidies.But the fact remains that the production needed to be subsidised.
Some areas got Quotas to limit production aswell.

I don't think that is a bad thing and not sure if its will happen for all foods. Irish foood products in europe is mainly used in the catering trade as the other Europeans want to have their own food as they don't trust other countries food. Even still much of the fruit and veg on sale is already foreign and even the milk from Northern Ireland is coming to the Republic.

Some of the new diets call for food to be consumed close to the consumption. This may also impact on Irish exports.

Well I'd like to think people would still want home produced traceable food.
That decision has been taken mostly out of their hands though.

PTL

and now farmers are drugies because they might have mushrooms growing on there land naturally and the new law states even natural mushrooms on land that you posses is illegal. So if a next door neighbour doesnt like them they can get them arrested on possesion.. thats my interpretation of the new rules .. should be interesting to see if it happens tho.

Victor

kwinabeeste wrote:

Point? if their costs remained the same then their "income" would be only slightly affected.

Year 1: Sales €200,000
Year 1: Costs €150,000
Year 1: Profit . €50,000

Year 2: Sales €180,000
Year 2: Costs €160,000
Year 2: Profit . €20,000

See how a small change in the gross can have a huge change in the net?

ronbyrne2005

Earthman wrote:

So you are making a fuss over 7% of farmers...
Whats your point,that there are some farmers able to do this? Of course there are-but not many.

7% this year but i'd say a hell of a lot more have such investments,farmers get heavily subsidised while making fortunes in land and property deals,its a disgrace.

ronbyrne2005

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

7% this year but i'd say a hell of a lot more have such investments,farmers get heavily subsidised while making fortunes in land and property deals,its a disgrace.

What is your evidence of this?