Handing in notice and references question

Eoin

While casually casting my eye on some of the job sites, there were a couple of thing I was wondering about with regards to handing in your notice and giving references etc.

I wouldn't even think of handing in my notice until I had signed a contract in the new company. That means that you have to have given the new company your referees' details, and they will have confirmed them.

It follows then, that unless you are lucky and are friendly with a manager who can give you a reference, you can't provide a reference from your current company. I know most people could give a reference from their previous company, but that is no use if it was 5 years ago. In fact, I can't even do this, as my manager from my previous company is my manager in my new company!

Am I totally mistaken in the sequence of events, or does anyone know a way around this?

nesf

Rock and a hard place really. The unfortunate truth is that to ensure getting a reference in some places you need to have notice handed in or you'll be handing it in after you ask for the reference if you get my meaning. In theory you should be able to get references from your present workplace but that isn't always the wisest course of action. Announcing to a company that you are actively looking for other work can have some unpleasant conseqences if you are unlucky.

seamus

Yeah, it's a tricky one. The best I can advise is to explain the situation to the prospective employer, and ask them to insert a clause in the contract, whereby the contract will only apply on receipt of a satisfactory reference.

This provides safety for both parties - if you know that your reference is fine, you can hand in your notice with the other job lined up. The employer also knows that it can commit to a contract before checking references; If the reference falls through, the contract is void.

Eoin

seamus wrote:

Yeah, it's a tricky one. The best I can advise is to explain the situation to the prospective employer, and ask them to insert a clause in the contract, whereby the contract will only apply on receipt of a satisfactory reference.

This provides safety for both parties - if you know that your reference is fine, you can hand in your notice with the other job lined up. The employer also knows that it can commit to a contract before checking references; If the reference falls through, the contract is void.

The problem is that you are still 100% reliant on your manager giving you the good reference. If s/he doesn't, then the new contract is voided, and you are in a worse position as you have handed in your notice!

While I'm at it; as I said earlier my current manager was also my manager in my last company. Our current company was the parent of the former company which wound down. Some of us were transferred to the mothership, while some were just let go. After two years or so, my boss got me transferred to his team.

This means that I can't even give a (relevant) reference for my last company!

seamus

eoin_s wrote:

The problem is that you are still 100% reliant on your manager giving you the good reference. If s/he doesn't, then the new contract is voided, and you are in a worse position as you have handed in your notice!

But then you'll never get another job anyway
If you thought that your manager wouldn't give you a good reference, you have to tell them you can't take the job...

whiskeyman

eoin_s wrote:

The problem is that you are still 100% reliant on your manager giving you the good reference. If s/he doesn't, then the new contract is voided, and you are in a worse position as you have handed in your notice!

I don't think they can, or really want to, give a bad reference, due to possible defamation of character.
I remember this coming up before.
Many places simply don't give character references anymore, but will just confirm dates of employment, for fear of legal action.

nesf

whiskeyman wrote:

I don't think they can, or really want to, give a bad reference, due to possible defamation of character.
I remember this coming up before.
Many places simply don't give character references anymore, but will just confirm dates of employment, for fear of legal action.

The difference is that they don't have to give you a good one. They just can't say anything bad. Silence speaks volumes and all that.

Tom Dunne

It might sound obvious, but is there anyone else other than your direct manger who can give you a reference?

I got around this conundrum by giving the name of a senior engineer I worked with and a college lecturer who supervised my MSc.

Cake Fiend

nesf wrote:

They just can't say anything bad.

Well, they can't say anything bad that they can't prove. If someone is consistently late for work and this can be proven, they can tell the prospective new employer that AFAIK.

whiskeyman

some interesting info here.

seamus

tom dunne wrote:

It might sound obvious, but is there anyone else other than your direct manger who can give you a reference?

There may be certain positions for which all you can do is give the HR dept of the company as a reference. For example, a job I had in college was with a small section of Vodafone. This section is since gone, and its staff were taken on into the main Vodafone call centre. My boss from that job, may or may not still be with Vodafone, but she didn't get a managerial job, she got a staff job. So if for some reason, someone wanted a reference for that job, all I could give is Vodafone HR who could just confirm that I worked there for that period.

You can certainly give anyone you want as a reference, but you'd be raising questions if the person that you gave wasn't your direct boss/supervisor.

Tom Dunne

seamus wrote:

You can certainly give anyone you want as a reference, but you'd be raising questions if the person that you gave wasn't your direct boss/supervisor.

But surely any reasonable prospective employer will understand that you don't want to give your current boss as a reference.

I did a load of interviews last summer and every one did.

nesf

Sico wrote:

Well, they can't say anything bad that they can't prove. If someone is consistently late for work and this can be proven, they can tell the prospective new employer that AFAIK.

I think you're right. Still most employers will avoid it for the minefield that it is unless you've really been burning those bridges in the notice period. Poor phrasing on my part above with the "can't".

Eoin

tom dunne wrote:

But surely any reasonable prospective employer will understand that you don't want to give your current boss as a reference.

That's what I would have thought, but if your previous job was more than a couple of years ago, a reference from a previous employer may not mean much to the prospective employer.

tom dunne wrote:

I did a load of interviews last summer and every one did.

I listen to your show daily, and would be happy to provide a reference (I'm sure you've never heard that before)