MSG discussion.

BaZmO*

NoelRock wrote:

C. Contain MSG, which is not your friend.

Well Parmasan Cheese contains the most naturally ocurring amount of MSG in any food.

segadreamcast

BaZmO* wrote:

Well Parmasan Cheese contains the most naturally ocurring amount of MSG in any food.

Firstly, that'd be wrong. Tomatoes contain at least 4 times the amount of naturally occuring glutamate.

Secondly, naturally occuring glutamate Vs. Artificially added monosodium glutamate. Wealth of difference - you should generally just be avoiding the stuff wherever you can... having said that though, some bodies dispute the claim that MSG is addictive and potentially harmful.

Blub2k4

NoelRock wrote:

Firstly, that'd be wrong. Tomatoes contain at least 4 times the amount of naturally occuring glutamate.

Secondly, naturally occuring glutamate Vs. Artificially added monosodium glutamate. Wealth of difference - you should generally just be avoiding the stuff wherever you can... having said that though, some bodies dispute the claim that MSG is addictive and potentially harmful.

Heston Blumenthal says different on his show about science in the kitchen, you know the guy that owns the "muckey duck" best restaurant in Uk last year, in Bray?

segadreamcast

Blub2k4 wrote:

Heston Blumenthal says different on his show about science in the kitchen, you know the guy that owns the "muckey duck" best restaurant in Uk last year, in Bray?

...well you didn't tell me what he said now, did you, so how can I respond? If it's in reference to tomatoes having far more glutamate than parmesan, I can gladly point you to references.

If it's in reference to MSG being bad, I'm just presenting information that is believed to be true by a substantial number of people and chefs - you can ignore it if you so wish.

Shabadu

MSG manufacturers are now pushing it as actively useful for health - a way to eat less salt - and they have pursued the celebrity route too. Heston Blumenthal, of the Fat Duck in Bray, is among the eminent chefs the industry has enlisted for promotion of the umami principle at conferences across the world - although he uses traditional sources like kombu.

from http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1522368,00.html


Interesting article there. I'm in two minds abourt msg. For some reason, I have no qualms about it occuring in natural foods, but would never use the refined powder, even though they both have the same chemical structure. It's a bit ridiculous when you think about it that way.

Also:

Free glutamate content of foods (mg per 100g)
roquefort cheese 1280
parmesan cheese 1200
soy sauce 1090
walnuts 658
fresh tomato juice 260
grape juice 258
peas 200
mushrooms 180
broccoli 176
tomatoes 140


So, parmesan does have a much higher glutamate content according to this source.

The Sweeper

Isn't glutamate the substance that creates the fifth flavour, umami?

Blub2k4

That's the one MAJD, as far as I remember, from a wiki entry (although I dont take that too seriously) it mentioned a seaweed extract that the umami/msg thing sprung from.

It appears Roquefort is higher so Blumenthal was close. Pretty interesting guy to watch his approach to cooking is novel.

<edit> I see there also that it is not the mucky duck, but the fat duck in bray, no wonder my websearches never brought that place up

bonkey

Blub2k4 wrote:

That's the one MAJD, as far as I remember, from a wiki entry (although I dont take that too seriously) it mentioned a seaweed extract that the umami/msg thing sprung from.

Its probably referring to the original method of making MSG, which was from a seaweed "broth".

Interesting article there. I'm in two minds abourt msg.

From what I can tell, its yet another one of these substances that people can be sensitive to, and if they are will cause them problems. This gets (at some point, for some reason) blown up into it being a demon substance that will ruin our lives, and the controversy never ends as both sides point to stuff backing up their claims.

Personally, I have no hesitation in using MSG, but wouldn't intentionally force it on anyone. That said, I believe it only benefits certain types of food and is all-too-often over-used....or used as a flavour and not as a flavour-enhancer.

Shabadu

Bonkey- Would you use it solely as an enhancer in asian food, or do you use it in any other cuisines? Do you have any tips, or recipes it works brilliantly in? Cheers.

The Sweeper

I don't think MSG was villified originally because of the effect it has on some people, it's more because of the reason it's used.

MSG is the naturally occuring substance that makes food taste of something. I know this isn't the most scientific of explanations, but essentially it's the substance that creates flavour - not a specific flavour, but whatever the taste of that food should be.

If you render it from natural sources and turn it into an additive, you can use it with very poor quality ingredients, and it will bring out every last pick of taste those poor ingredients hold. Essentially it lets you use cheap crap and make it taste better than it really should.

I think that's why it's viewed negatively - you'll find a lot of it in things like "just add boiling water" one-pot meals because it restores the flavours lost in the drying process. If there's a lot of MSG in what you're eating, it should lead you more to considering the quality of the food, that it needs to be treated this way...

For me the most worrying MSG-related thing is how it disguises the poor quality of cheap, factory-farmed meat, e.g. chicken from your chinese takeaway...

segadreamcast

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

I don't think MSG was villified originally because of the effect it has on some people, it's more because of the reason it's used.

MSG is the naturally occuring substance that makes food taste of something. I know this isn't the most scientific of explanations, but essentially it's the substance that creates flavour - not a specific flavour, but whatever the taste of that food should be.

If you render it from natural sources and turn it into an additive, you can use it with very poor quality ingredients, and it will bring out every last pick of taste those poor ingredients hold. Essentially it lets you use cheap crap and make it taste better than it really should.

I think that's why it's viewed negatively - you'll find a lot of it in things like "just add boiling water" one-pot meals because it restores the flavours lost in the drying process. If there's a lot of MSG in what you're eating, it should lead you more to considering the quality of the food, that it needs to be treated this way...

For me the most worrying MSG-related thing is how it disguises the poor quality of cheap, factory-farmed meat, e.g. chicken from your chinese takeaway...

You've really articulated my thoughts on the issue there... I just don't think that, with fresh, quality ingredients used to their full effect, any additives such as MSG are really necessary. Irrespective, I wouldn't touch any of that packet based stuff with a barge pole.

My apologies for disputing the tomatoes vs. parmesan thing on the MSG, my source seemed to be somewhat skewed in terms of measurements (3 slices vs 2 tbsp of parmesan) which lead to the "4 times more" claim on my part.

Sarsfield

I don't know anything about the subject as such, but my issue with MSG is the S. We (in the west) consume way too much sodium. It's effect on blood pressure can be scary. And hypertension is a huge killer through heart disease & strokes.

Check the sodium content on any packaged food containing msg. The max recommended daily intake of sodium 2.2g (equivalent to 6g of salt).

Has this thread been split off from something else as post 1 doesn't look like a logical beginning

segadreamcast

Yeah, the "That's a bland meatball" thread in Recipes...:)

Shabadu

NoelRock wrote:

My apologies for disputing the tomatoes vs. parmesan thing on the MSG, my source seemed to be somewhat skewed in terms of measurements (3 slices vs 2 tbsp of parmesan) which lead to the "4 times more" claim on my part.

Ah, that's an easy mistake to make. Irresponsible of the source not to base it on proportion.

Sarsfield- I hadn't even considered that! And people are reccomending it as a way to REDUCE sodium intake? Crazy.

Interesting fact though- only a percentage of the population have a link between sodium intake and hypertension- most people, (a small majority iirc) could eat salt with a spoon all day and not have adverse reactions.

Tree

some ppl are told to increase their sodium intake (ppl w/ certain heart/nervous conditions)