Buying a car in the England, bargains to be had!

kluivert

Check out the following websites, if you cant find something from this lot then your total screwed.

highly recommend Fords of Winston (www.fow.co.uk). Huge selection and close to Hollyhead.

I was thinking about buying a new car in England and import, or a car thats less than three months old (Uk Vat Law). So buy a newish car take off the UK Vat element (divided the price by(17.5%) 1.175) and then import and pay the VRT only if it has over six thousands miles on the clock. Bargain!!


www.autoplanet.com; www.availablecar.com; www.bristoltradecentre.com; www.carcraft.co.uk; www.cargiant.co.uk; www.carland.com; www.thecarnation.co.uk; www.thecarpeople.co.uk; www.carshop.co.uk; www.dccookdirect.com; www.directcars.co.uk; www.eddiewright.co.uk; www.fow.co.uk; www.gocar.co.uk; www.hiltongarage.co.uk; www.iscars.co.uk; www.jftc.co.uk; www.jwsandle.co.uk; www.millenium-cars.co.uk; www.mh2k.com; www.motornation.co.uk; www.motorpoint.co.uk; www.ronskinnerandsons.co.uk; www.stebbingscarcentre.co.uk; www.trade-sales.co.uk; www.virgincars.com

maidhc

kluivert wrote:

I was thinking about buying a new car in England and import, or a car thats less than three months old (Uk Vat Law). So buy a newish car take off the UK Vat element (divided the price by(17.5%) 1.175) and then import and pay the VRT only if it has over six thousands miles on the clock. Bargain!!

Could you explain the VRT bit again...

I presume you have to pay VAT in the UK if you are not a business... How can you avoid paying VRT in Ireland?

Hagar

Anyone know of any LHD specialists in the UK, preferably down south? Thanks.

flanzer

kluivert wrote:

So buy a newish car take off the UK Vat element (divided the price by(17.5%) 1.175) and then import and pay the VRT only if it has over six thousands miles on the clock. Bargain!!

Clear as mud! You have me a bit excited with this claim! Can you explain for me also please .........

kluivert

VRT point explained

Based on UK Vat law and Irish Vat and VRT Regulations.

1. You pay vat on an import from the uk if it is less than six months old or has less than six thousand miles on the clock. Even if you have paid the vat in the uk as well on the purchase of a new car.

2. When exporting a car from the UK to other EU nations which is less than three months old, you can request from the seller (Dealer, Car Supermarket) that the car will be purchased for export and that the UK Vat element in the selling price should be taken off. The seller fills in a form for the customs and excise in the UK no vat will be charged on the purchase price as the car is for export.

3. When you have purchased the newish car (less than three months old) import to Ireland and hide it till it has more than 6000 miles or is older than six months.

4. Go to VRO office basis on point 3 above being met and reg the car here.

Bobs your uncle!

Now you have saved 17.5% Uk Vat and paid VRT on a car which is not new.
More savings.

If anyone is going to complain about this, they are the sort of people who bend over, id rather screw the government than them screwing me with their excessive VRT and crap vat regulations.

Ireland and the UK have a double taxation agreement. You should not have to pay vat twice on the purchase of a new car, but hey little old Ireland will make you pay double, so if you do as explained above you could save some money.

maidhc

I'm still a bit hazy (my fault not yours...): Do you pay *any* vat in your scenario. Do the revenue not request proof you have paid vat, and, if so, would it not be better to give 17.5% to QE2 than 21% to Bertie (am I patriotic or what?).

quarryman

sticky above is pretty good.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=176389

FWIW: i got my car in the UK. well worth it.

kluivert

There is no vat paid,

Once you register the car with the VRO after it is six months old or has 6k on the clock you dont pay vat here or in the UK.

If a car is exported from the UK and is less than three months old you dont pay UK Vat.

No vat is paid to either QE2 or Bertie.

So theres a three month period in which you must keep the car hid.

The rich people of this country have been doing this with Ferrari's, Porsches etc for awhile now so why shouldnt the ordinary people of this country get a slice of the pie as well.

SDunne4

How much of a saving is there to be made?

Henry Ford III

Sounds very cunning, but is it legal?

I'm sure EU law dictates VAT should be paid at least in 1 memeber state.

The Revenue would kick you up and down if they found out I'd imagine.

kluivert wrote:

There is no vat paid,

Once you register the car with the VRO after it is six months old or has 6k on the clock you dont pay vat here or in the UK.

If a car is exported from the UK and is less than three months old you dont pay UK Vat.

No vat is paid to either QE2 or Bertie.

So theres a three month period in which you must keep the car hid.

The rich people of this country have been doing this with Ferrari's, Porsches etc for awhile now so why shouldnt the ordinary people of this country get a slice of the pie as well.

Borzoi

kluivert wrote:

The rich people of this country have been doing this with Ferrari's, Porsches etc for awhile now so why shouldnt the ordinary people of this country get a slice of the pie as well.

True, and many of them had their cars seized last year when the customs boys got wind, and I think some of the Irish dealers involved in that little scam are facing prosecution

lomb

aye for vat fraud, the worst kind of tax evasion as they look at it like loss of government money not loss of your money like income tax would be. penalties could be more than the value of the entire car..

Hagar

Presumably you could store the car in a bonded warehouse of some sort which could technically be outside both tax jurisdictions ?

prospect

Borzoi wrote:

True, and many of them had their cars seized last year when the customs boys got wind, and I think some of the Irish dealers involved in that little scam are facing prosecution

True,

This is the scam that was busted last year. Alot of very expensive cars (Bentleys, CL's, etc) were taken in by the government until the outstanding VAT & VRT was paid, and a hefty fine on top of that.
They were buying the cars as you say, and then clocking them up to 6001 miles, or putting them on rolling roads with a brick on the pedal

kluivert

Its technical loop hole that the Revenue have not closed, and some smart people took advantage of it.

Am from Monaghan very near the border at culloville and alot of people do it here because it is impossible to identify Irish drivers in NI reg cars. Although the customs do try with very little success.

Lomb your willing to stand up for a government that pinches your pennies while you sleep.

It is technical point.

Theres nothing illegal about it.

The revenue got slapped on the face and they didnt like it, so they kicked up a fuss.

The next time any of you are in Dundalk, try and spot the Irish driver in a NI Reg car.

flanzer

kluivert wrote:

3. When you have purchased the newish car (less than three months old) import to Ireland and hide it till it has more than 6000 miles or is older than six months.

So basically what you're saying is that the car HAS to be less than 3 months old with an owner say, (a demo model?) Can it be brand new?

kluivert

The people who work in the Revenue are as thick as two planks (no offense i have evidence)

Last summer the gf wanted to buy an Astra, she looked in the autotrader and found one for cheap in Newry, newish car, four months old, unwanted present. Quick sale to fund a BMW.

Ok, arranged everything with the seller and then went to check out the Revenue stance. VRT and VAT had to be paid, no bother with that. Revenue person in Dundalk said will you have an invoice, i said yes he said how much is on the invoice.

Now the purchase price of the Astra was £6750 sterling.

I didnt want to pay the vat because the vat had been paid in the UK, and EU regulations state that commodities are vatable only once in the EU. But no the Irish Government want an extra slice of the pie for themselves as well.

Back to the story, i told the revenue inspector that the invoice was for €0. and that i could provide an invoice to show this. After all this was a second hand car being purchased. Not a new one.

He crapped himself. He didnt know what to do or where to turn and went to seek help from his superiors. Ok he claim back 20 mins later and stated that the original purchase invoice would have to be got from the seller and that would be used to calculate the vat owned to the revenue.

WFT? Double taxing is also illegal in the EU. You dont hear people giving out about this, do you!

I checked the regulations in regards to payin vat on imports on cars less than six months old or less than 6k miles on the clock. It states what is required is the invoice from the person or dealer who is selling the car. And not the original purchase invoice of the car.

Making up regulations on the spot, is that legal.

AlienGav

This sounds brilliant!
But I'm still slightly miffed about the the final cost of the car...

Could you please do a worked example?!

I've spotted a 2002 Audi TT 1.8 T, with 50k miles, and it costs 10, 000 GBP (14,657 EUR)

How would it cost me to drive this over here, legally!

flanzer

AlienGav wrote:

Could you please do a worked example?!

Please do!! I very excited about this! I think though on an 2002 Audi TT, you just have to pay the VRT...

kluivert, you're presidential campaign is depending on this example!!!!!

lomb

kluivert wrote:

Lomb your willing to stand up for a government that pinches your pennies while you sleep.

Im not standing up for anyone. i know what revenue want, any car less than 6 months old or 6000 on the clock is regarded as new and is vatable in ireland, even if vat has been payed in the uk.
there are many many problems with vat laws, if u ever ge involved in commercial property u wont know where to begin. even experianced professionals and tax men dont know what the laws are as there are so many and they conflict.
anyway the solution is to buy a car that is older than 6 months old.
by all means go for it, reclaim the uk vat, and dont pay any here, but if u are caught and made to pay, then the only solution will be to go to court to fight them or to pay with the penalties they want u to pay. ur choice i suppose but the penalties could be 10 grand, or the alternative of going to court and loosing could mean 20 grand, so pays ur money and takes ur choice:p

Henry Ford III

I reckon that VAT scam is illegal. If you reclain UK VAT there must be an Irish liability on import.

Double tax treaties etc. are designed to handle this kind of thing.

Savman

kluivert wrote:

Check out the following websites, if you cant find something from this lot then your total screwed.

highly recommend Fords of Winston (www.fow.co.uk). Huge selection and close to Hollyhead.

I was thinking about buying a new car in England and import, or a car thats less than three months old (Uk Vat Law). So buy a newish car take off the UK Vat element (divided the price by(17.5%) 1.175) and then import and pay the VRT only if it has over six thousands miles on the clock. Bargain!!


www.autoplanet.com; www.availablecar.com; www.bristoltradecentre.com; www.carcraft.co.uk; www.cargiant.co.uk; www.carland.com; www.thecarnation.co.uk; www.thecarpeople.co.uk; www.carshop.co.uk; www.dccookdirect.com; www.directcars.co.uk; www.eddiewright.co.uk; www.fow.co.uk; www.gocar.co.uk; www.hiltongarage.co.uk; www.iscars.co.uk; www.jftc.co.uk; www.jwsandle.co.uk; www.millenium-cars.co.uk; www.mh2k.com; www.motornation.co.uk; www.motorpoint.co.uk; www.ronskinnerandsons.co.uk; www.stebbingscarcentre.co.uk; www.trade-sales.co.uk; www.virgincars.com

Work that system baby

kluivert

lomb wrote:

if u ever ge involved in commercial property u wont know where to begin. even experianced professionals and tax men dont know what the laws are as there are so many and they conflict.

Am a part qualified accountant, i know a fair bit about Vat Law in this country and in the UK. Commercial property and Vat regulations are not difficult, theres is defined rules in regards to this, depends on the term of the lease and where or not the property was previously developed since 1972. Am a bit rusty on it, but any tax consultant worth their weight, should be able to provide understandable explainations.

Double tax treaties where introduced to ensure that double taxation didnt occur. If you buy a new car in England today and import it and you pay the UK Vat as well, then when you reg the car here in Ireland tomorrow, you will according to Revenue have to pay Irish Vat on the car as well. Now this goes against the prime objective of a double tax treaty.

When you buy a new car in the UK or Europe, you express to the dealer that the car will be exported to Ireland and therfore you dont have to pay UK Vat @ 17.5%. So get the final price of the car and divide by 1.175 to get the cost without the vat. And divide again by .67 to convert to Euro.

In England this Vat rules applies up to cars which are three months old. After this date you may not request that a car be sold without UK Vat.

If you buy a a pre reg car and get a good deal from one of the car supermarkets import to Ireland, dont drive it till its over six months old and then register it. According to the Revenue, Vat is payable on cars which ar less than 6 months old or less than 6k on the clock.

Ok example:

Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Club 06 £8000 including Vat www.fow.co.uk
£8000 divide by 1.175 = £6808
£6808 converted to Euro = 6808/.6681 (BOI) = €10190

Now dont reg the car till its six months old.
VRT on this car €3575
+ Cost of car €10190
Total Cost = €13947

Big Saving over Irish equivlent.

More hassle, no doubt about that. But i think its worth it.

Last Word : Everyone to there own. If you agree with this then its good way of saving money. If you dont then you dont and i respect your opinions on the matter. Its not illegal, its using existing rules to your advantage.

No one has quoted the fact that you must reg the car on the day of importing. This is very true and if you dont do this then your in trouble.

What i would do there is leave the car at the cousins house in Newry till its six months old. Nothing illegal about that.

Anan1

"When you buy a new car in the UK or Europe, you express to the dealer that the car will be exported to Ireland and therfore you dont have to pay UK Vat @ 17.5%."

- Are you sure that "expressing to the dealer" is enough? I'm not an expert, but I would imagine that you would have to satisfy the UK tax authorities that VAT was being paid in another EU member state before they would refund the UK VAT.

flanzer

kluivert wrote:

Ok example:

Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Club 06 £8000 including Vat www.fow.co.uk
£8000 divide by 1.175 = £6808
£6808 converted to Euro = 6808/.6681 (BOI) = €10190

Now dont reg the car till its six months old.
VRT on this car €3575
+ Cost of car €10190
Total Cost = €13947

Is this a brand new car? Will I not stand out a mile as I drive this across the Irish sea without any number plates either Irish or UK? Do customs not look for documentation on the specific date the car was registered in the UK when calculating VRT?

Kali

From oasis.gov.ie:

"You must register your car and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival into Ireland. You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland."

Whats all this about hiding it for 3 months? Surely they require the export form which will have a date on it?

kluivert

The Dealer fills out a form available on the inland revenue site that the car is for import and bah bah.....and that vat will be paid in the country of export.

You would look at buying a pre reg car which will have a number plate on it. Do number plates not come on new cars now, gf parents new car arrived yesterday with plates.

Listen it depends on how honest you are, personally i would think long and hard about it, and as I am not in favour of buying new cars, I cant see myself doing this any time soon.

It was just an idea that was throwing in for good measure.

Surely people who buy Ferraris Merc's etc would have the money to pay the Vat on their imports, so why didnt they??

Listen i started the thread to just give the websites of car supermarkets in england if anyone was looking at buying a car over there wether new or not.

I was looking at a Ford Mondeo TDCI 115 bhp. Could get one s/h in one of these car supermarkets cheaper than you could get here in ireland, thats all.

Henry Ford III

Let me get this straight.

You buy a newish car in the UK, and import it here. You can get the UK VAT back if it's under 3 months old, but are obliged to delcalre it to the VRO the day following import.

Irish VAT is then payable and VRT too.

I don't get it? Do you hide the car for 3 months? VAT is payable surely somewhere?

kluivert

Henry Ford III wrote:

Let me get this straight.

You buy a newish car in the UK, and import it here. You can get the UK VAT back if it's under 3 months old, but are obliged to delcalre it to the VRO the day following import.

Irish VAT is then payable and VRT too.

I don't get it? Do you hide the car for 3 months? VAT is payable surely somewhere?

1. You buy a new car in England for import to Ireland - pay no UK Vat.

2. Import the car but dont reg it till its six months old.

3. When its six months old then reg it.

4. Pay VRT only, no Irish Vat.

5. No Vat is paid on the car in England or Ireland.

Read the rules in regards to this on revenue.ie and compare to the UK Rules on their website.

Put the two together and you will notice that there is a loop hole in the Irish regulations.

Its the wording on the rule that leaves it open to this avoidance. However there is another point that you must reg the car no later than the following day of import. Now this is up to you wether you want to take the risk or not and pick it hid.

Listen its very hard to do but people have done it but they have got caught and there are other people who have not got caught.

Henry Ford III

I now understand. It's illegal however.

Hagar

Presumably you must export from the UK immediately, so you transport the vehicle to the licenced/bonded yards on the docks in dublin where the Jap imports are held, pay for 3/4 months storage. Then import the vehicle. No laws broken there I think?

lomb

kluivert wrote:

2. Import the car but dont reg it till its six months old.

3. When its six months old then reg it.

You must register your car and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival into Ireland. You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland

So basically what u are saying is the car disappears for 3 months, but if this is the case and it is on irish shores its fraud as "You must register your car and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival into Ireland"
now if u leave it on uk shores, u are defrauding the uk vat man, as u cannot reclaim it unless its being exported.

lomb

Hagar wrote:

Presumably you must export from the UK immediately, so you transport the vehicle to the licenced/bonded yards on the docks in dublin where the Jap imports are held, pay for 3/4 months storage. Then import the vehicle. No laws broken there I think?

good point, it would have to be in some kind of bonded yard.

Heinzy

Hagar wrote:

Anyone know of any LHD specialists in the UK, preferably down south? Thanks.

http://www.2autonet.com/thecars.htm

yop

Very interesting topic lads,

The thing that I am confused about it the forms that the VRT crowd look for, does it not have to see an invoice for that car from the garage you bought the car or some evidence of where and when it came from, like a boat ticket or someit?

Or does it seem now to me, that if u buy the car in the UK, pay ex VAT, take it to a bonded yard (I presume these are easy to find and that they will not look at you weird if u bring one car there) and leave it until it is 6months old then take it to the VRT that there will be no questions asked, ie give us a receipt of purchase or boat ticket to prove it came over last month?
Why has it only got 200 miles on it?

Also why leave it in a bonded garage, why not take it home and sit it up in the garage at home?

Hagar

Thanks Heinzy

By putting it in a bonded yard you are not breaking the law as it technically in no-man's land.

Henry Ford III

Hagar wrote:

Thanks Heinzy

By putting it in a bonded yard you are not breaking the law as it technically in no-man's land.

True but you would be in breach of the VRT regs.

Sleipnir

Interesting but it's not really "tax avoidance", it's tax evasion.

You must, under Irish law, register the car the day after it is imported.
By importing the car and then hiding it, you are breaking that law and evading paying VRT.

Not that I would have a problem with it!

Hagar

Henry Ford III wrote:

True but you would be in breach of the VRT regs.

How? You only have to reg it after you bring it in to Ireland, just like the Jap imports.

Henry Ford III

To get a car into a bonded warehouse (do they exist?) you'd need to import in into the country first.

Hagar

How do you explain the un-registered cars in the compounds in East Wall for way more than 24 hours under the watchful eyes of customs officials? Thay can't all be illegal, it would have been closed down years ago if it were.

Henry Ford III

Dealers don't have to immediately reregister cars and pay VRT afaik.

Individuals do however.

kluivert

Who here knows of someone who bought a car in the North and registered it the next day.

I know plenty of people who drive NI Cars in the south and live in the south.

Go to Dundalk and see for yourself.

I know one young man in particular who none this two years ago and is still driving his car with a NI reg. He bought it new from the dealer in the North. Didnt pay the Vat on it either, he was stopped by Customs, asked him a few questions and he said the VRT Forms and all in the glove box and said he was on his way to get it changed over, a year later he still hasnt.

Ok its not legal, but let me tell you this, this country suffers from too much red tape, know one knows what the other persons is doing in the Revenue.

Henry Ford III

You wouldn't get away with that further away from the border.

davynorthside

Sorry Don't understand..... u still have to pay VRT here do you not. Can someone give us and example of how this all works... what age car is it best to buy etc

Padraig Mor

It's a zombie!!!

EPM

Davynorthside, this thread is over five years old. If you have a question/opinion on this matter there are countless threads available to read through the search function or if they don't specifically answer your question you can start a new thread.