From a sport to a range

columok

I've been thinking lately about the various sports that can be used to cover the three ranges in functional training. I'm wondering that with the individual "pure" sports having different rules from MMA competition they obviously have some techniques that apply for example to boxing but are less effective and usually discarded when (again for example) takedowns come into play.

I.e. the jab is amateur boxing is a staple yet its importance in MMA competition is different.

I'm wondering what bits tend to be stripped away? What positions on the ground are less useable in an MMA rather than a BJJ environment? What kicks used in Thai are rarely used in MMA?

Ger Healy

I was wondering about the same thing but more from a standup point of view.
What I have found since training Rodney Kings Crazy Monkey System(TM) in that opposes to discarding technique they are modified. Even a relatively easy technique of slipping a punch is modified it can not be as exaggerated as when you are boxing because of knee strikes.
MMA fighting stance more square on so as to avoid take down as oppose side on as in TMA sparring where the use of more kick is prevalent

fianna.5u.com

THe reason you stand square in MMA is as much to defend a takedown as it is to deliver and defend kicks and punches.

I think in every range techniques are made more simple and more secure. The guard in MMa needs to be some what tighter because of the smaller gloves, that said MMA striking isn't as precise. The nogi game needs to be very tight compared to most BJJ stylist, the figure four replaces the grabbing the sleeve etc. THe clinch is sort of a hybrid of MT and Wrestling, not to close not to far away.

However, I always maintain they all rely on 3 simple elements posture, centring and "hooks" (which is really just hand position). While the details of each range change they all rely on those elements. So in sub wrestling being on bottom might be cooler than in MMA, and the specific distances between the hips in MT and wrestling may vary they all rely on posture, centring and "hooks". If you can be honestly self critical and you pay attention to these elements you can improve greatly. I think.

Peace

Colm_OReilly

Interesting question.

In my experience a lot is stripped away from a range in an MMA environment. For example, in wrestling when takinga single leg it's perfectly okay to have your head on the outside, whereas in MMA this can lead to either the guy taking your back/guillotining you.

As for my overall prinicple, I've found that the only important things are the head and hips, and everything else is an outer defence or can't be attacked if you don't have control of this, so I'm always telling my athletes to focus on how they are defending/attacking these areas.

Colm

fianna.5u.com

Head and hips = nice

columok

Good points lads.

Was training jitz with hitz this evening and its amazing how mounts jumps up on the priority position list the minute hits rather than just submissions are involved.

Simarily one of my mates trained thai for 5 years and used many kicks (seen Dekkers use some of em) that few in MMA use. Also it seems that in MMA boxing body shots are a lot less common than in pure boxing. And finally outside of Olympic Wrestlers big fancy arching throws are very very rare in MMA. Its mainly single leg, double leg, body lock and trips from double underhooks.

I guess when you've limited time to train the 3 ranges of doom you've got to focus on the high percentage stuff.

But like you say... Head and Hips.

Michael O Leary

This is a very intesting topic and seems to show how a system is born. With regard to information technology one definition of a system is, "an interrelated set of elements, viewed as a whole and designed to achieve a set purpose". It would seem from all of your observations that some of the elements in MMA are becoming interrelated and that the ones which do not relate will eventually become discarded as they will impede the achievement of "a set purpose". The end result may be viewed as a whole and so a system could be born.

It is worth noting that European swordsmanship/fencing only became a scientific system in the fifteenth century in Italy. Prior to that it was just a collection of methods based on whatever people found worked for them personally and included wrestling moves which were later discarded. I also read that boxing and wrestling were taught together up until a about 200 hundred years ago when they began to be taught as separete arts.

It will be interesting to see where this eventually leads.

Regards,:)

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Michael O Leary

Hi Colum,

And talking about training the high percentage stuff when you have limited time, its back to Pareto's Principle and the 20%-80% rule where 20% of your effort will achieve 80% of the your results and this will help you to optimise your skills.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

pma-ire

Michael O Leary wrote:

It is worth noting that European swordsmanship/fencing only became a scientific system in the fifteenth century in Italy. Prior to that it was just a collection of methods based on whatever people found worked for them personally and included wrestling moves which were later discarded. I also read that boxing and wrestling were taught together up until a about 200 hundred years ago when they began to be taught as separete arts.

Ya! Boxing had the Cross Buttocks Throw!

Here is a little reference to the early rules of boxing and this throw. Written by Iain Abernethy!
http://practical-martial-arts.co.uk/practical_karate/iain_abernethy/ia_cross_buttocks.html

Michael O Leary

That article is very interesting and shows how much boxing has changed. It is worth noting that fencing was never really popular in Britain as it was seen as a foreign art where boxing was seen as essentially British and a more "honest" form of combat.

By contrast fencing was a near religion for the Protestant elite in Ireland during the 18th century. Well educated Jews were always getting challanged to fencing duels even though it was not part of their culture however when they took up the art they excelled so well as it that they were eventually banned from it.

Sorry lads. Don't want to go off on a tangient. I just find the evolution of combat arts interesting. Back to you guys.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

columok

Ya! Boxing had the Cross Buttocks Throw!

Philip Stollard threw me like that in MMA League 2004: Ground Zero. Tasty.