Being bullied in work

Lorri_L

On Monday I handed in my notice in work. Only yesterday I was told that they cant accept my notice of two weeks and i'll have to give a month. I had a talk with my manager, who then, because I wouldn't give on to him, went to a director of the company. He spoke to me alone away from any other member of staff and was very intimidating, i ended up crying after this "little chat" (as he put it). Don't get me wrong, he did not raise his voice to me, but he made me fell as if I was wrong and being unfair in only giving them two weeks notice. He keeps referring back to my contract, which I am convinced is null and void. It says a different position then I am in at the minute, it also says I am earning 4k less than I actually am. But I persisted, and today was told that I could leave on the date set by my notice but because I was leaving in such a bad manner they can not give me a reference. This means a lot to my CV as I have only had two full time jobs since I left school, this being one of them. I really dont know what to do here as the job i was offered says at the very latest I can start in two weeks. Does anyone have any advice?

Kinetic^

Lorri_L wrote:

On Monday I handed in my notice in work. Only yesterday I was told that they cant accept my notice of two weeks and i'll have to give a month. I had a talk with my manager, who then, because I wouldn't give on to him, went to a director of the company. He spoke to me alone away from any other member of staff and was very intimidating, i ended up crying after this "little chat" (as he put it). Don't get me wrong, he did not raise his voice to me, but he made me fell as if I was wrong and being unfair in only giving them two weeks notice. He keeps referring back to my contract, which I am convinced is null and void. It says a different position then I am in at the minute, it also says I am earning 4k less than I actually am. But I persisted, and today was told that I could leave on the date set by my notice but because I was leaving in such a bad manner they can not give me a reference. This means a lot to my CV as I have only had two full time jobs since I left school, this being one of them. I really dont know what to do here as the job i was offered says at the very latest I can start in two weeks. Does anyone have any advice?

Hi Lorri,

If the job you're going into needs a reference from your current employer, then call your new employer and explain the situation and see what they say to you.

If they don't need a reference, I'd finish up in 2 weeks - you've given your notice, they can't force you to stay. They might mess you around with regards to your P45 and last pay check but if they're like that, do you really want them on your CV? A similar situation happened to a colleague in my current employment on Tuesday. The way I see it, if you've given them the notice required by either contract or employment law then you're fine.

As far as your contract being null and void, if no other contract has been issued to you then I would say that your original contract is the one I'd be basing my notice period on unless of course its been several years since it was issued.

How long have you been working there?

Did you talk to the director or did your manager?

Lorri_L

I know, it should be ok as I have the other job in the bag, but in future it may be different. Thats all Im thinking, I think its really unfair

Kinetic^

Lorri_L wrote:

I know, it should be ok as I have the other job in the bag, but in future it may be different. Thats all Im thinking, I think its really unfair

You're dead right, what happened here was the my colleague was told that they might not let him go. He was shocked, they can't keep him here.

Go to the director directly, I think your manager is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

I'm not sure what industry you're working in but for future reference it might be advisable to give a months notice, its the standard period these days (well in my area of work anyway).

seamus

That's pretty ****ty tbh. Although your initial contract may be different to your existing role, things like changes to job description (which aren't promotions) and increases in salaries are effectively modifications to the contract - the other sections of the initial contract are still valid. If the contract has been incorrect since the start though, it may be void.

To be honest, I would explain to the new employer what's after happening, and why they cannot now get a reference from your last employer (unless the new employer isn't looking for references). At this point in time, it's clear that you can't stay on at your current job if the new employer pulls out, so you have nothing to lose by being upfront about it.

If you have a way with words, you could swing around to seem like you sacrificed a perfectly good reference to come and work for their company. That you've been chosen following the interview process, shows that they're confident about your abilities.

Any time I've jumped jobs, I've always made it clear that if I was chosen, I would have to give full notice, but if they needed me any earlier, I would "see what I can do".

Stark

Lorri_L wrote:

On Monday I handed in my notice in work. Only yesterday I was told that they cant accept my notice of two weeks and i'll have to give a month. I had a talk with my manager, who then, because I wouldn't give on to him, went to a director of the company. He spoke to me alone away from any other member of staff and was very intimidating, i ended up crying after this "little chat" (as he put it). Don't get me wrong, he did not raise his voice to me, but he made me fell as if I was wrong and being unfair in only giving them two weeks notice. He keeps referring back to my contract, which I am convinced is null and void. It says a different position then I am in at the minute, it also says I am earning 4k less than I actually am. But I persisted, and today was told that I could leave on the date set by my notice but because I was leaving in such a bad manner they can not give me a reference. This means a lot to my CV as I have only had two full time jobs since I left school, this being one of them. I really dont know what to do here as the job i was offered says at the very latest I can start in two weeks. Does anyone have any advice?

How intimidating was he and how crucial is the work you're doing at the moment? He might just have been a little freaked out at the thought of losing someone at an important time in a project as manager's often do. All you can say is that you're sorry about that but your long-term career interests are very important to you and they have to respect that. As far as I know, what you stand to lose is your reference and some of your pay.

As for the contract, I think it's pretty normal for them not to update your contract after a payraise. My contract still shows my starting salary for example. I'm also not sure if you automatically get a new contract if you move jobs within a company unless it's a major job move. I think most contracts often have a clause that says the longer you're with a company, the more notice you have to give, up to a month's notice I believe.

I think you'll get away without a reference for your new company since you've already gotten the job. In fact, many companies these days have a policy of not giving references.

Kinetic^

Stark wrote:

In fact, many companies these days have a policy of not giving references.

Sorry to be thread jacking but why is that Stark? I wasn't aware of that.

Stark

Apparently it leaves them open to lawsuits if the reference is crap. Oracle is one company I know of that doesn't do references.

Kinetic^

Stark wrote:

Apparently it leaves them open to lawsuits if the reference is crap. Oracle is one company I know of that doesn't do references.

I though I heard that it was illegal to give a bad reference, probably BS though.

Do they even confirm that you worked their?

Stark

Oh they'll confirm that you worked there alright. They're also supposed to give you a "statement of work" as well which is meant to state what work you performed for them, without actually giving an opinion on it. Never got mine though.

eth0_

How long are you working in the company, OP? iirc if you're there less than 2 years you only have to give 2 weeks' notice by law.
Check it out on oasis.gov.ie

seamus

Keyser Soze 69 wrote:

I though I heard that it was illegal to give a bad reference, probably BS though.

It's not illegal. The problem exists when a company says something which cannot be proven, they are open to be sued for defamation, etc. Thus, companies will tend to only say "Yes he worked here from x date to y date, and his job description was z". If there are warnings on your record, they can of course state that (since it's provable), but they'd probably err on the side of caution and not say anything unless you were dismissed by them. They can give you a glowing reference however without issue.

If you find a job offer being withdrawn after your references were checked, I would ask for a copy of the reference (if it was written), or if the reference was by phone, get a mate to request a written reference for a "job" that you've been offered in his "company".

eth0_ wrote:

How long are you working in the company, OP? iirc if you're there less than 2 years you only have to give 2 weeks' notice by law.
Check it out on oasis.gov.ie

The law only states the minimum required notice. If you agree to a notice period in your contract, the company can insist that you stick to it, provided that the notice period is not less than the minimum required by law. A company could insist on 6 months' notice if you agree to it in your contract.

Lorri_L

i am here less than two years. At the moment im really being excluded. Its a relatively small company that has quite a bad rep, employee wise and customer wise. The company i have the job offer from is a multinational company that are meant to be great to work for, so im not going to pass it up. However, I feel obliged to work out my next week but at the moment all im getting from my manager and supervisors are dirty looks and smart remarks.

Kinetic^

Lorri_L wrote:

i am here less than two years. At the moment im really being excluded. Its a relatively small company that has quite a bad rep, employee wise and customer wise. The company i have the job offer from is a multinational company that are meant to be great to work for, so im not going to pass it up. However, I feel obliged to work out my next week but at the moment all im getting from my manager and supervisors are dirty looks and smart remarks.

They have professional issues, if they've got a bad rep there's obviously a good reason why. Work out the week and then its adios.

Its probably better that you're not associated with them and sure if you eventually leave your next job, then you could probably leave them off your cv if you've worked in the new place for a substantial amount of time.

Another instance is where a friend of mine handed his notice in after 5 years, the boss told him to get out there or then or he would call the cops. (in case he was going to try and steal clients - funny all the same though).

Stark

Lorri_L wrote:

i am here less than two years. At the moment im really being excluded. Its a relatively small company that has quite a bad rep, employee wise and customer wise. The company i have the job offer from is a multinational company that are meant to be great to work for, so im not going to pass it up. However, I feel obliged to work out my next week but at the moment all im getting from my manager and supervisors are dirty looks and smart remarks.

If that is their behaviour, then you shouldn't feel obliged to give them anything. A job's a job, it's something you do, and at the end of the day, an employer can always find someone else to do it. That's not saying that it's not easy to feel guilty if your co-workers/managers were nice to you but if they're pricks then you definitely shouldn't feel an obligation to them.

Your new job is now your top priority. If staying an extra two weeks in your current job means passing up your new job then don't. You'll probably face hassle with arrears salary and P45/reference but you can face that as it comes.

Lorri_L

Yeah but funnily enough the head of finance told me directly that they cant stop my pay and that he would give my P45 to my boyfriend who works here simply because he has had run ins with my manager and the department director and knows what they are like. I know how unproffesional it is but I think I'm just going to call in sick tomorrow and write a letter to the CEO and managing director and tell them why im not coming back and how im being treated for leaving.

seamus

Lorri_L wrote:

I know how unproffesional it is but I think I'm just going to call in sick tomorrow and write a letter to the CEO and managing director and tell them why im not coming back and how im being treated for leaving.

That's a good idea. Just don't be abusive or otherwise offensive (i.e. calling the director a prick ) in the letter. State exactly what happened, and the effect that this has had. In your own mind, look at the letter as a way of just telling your side of the story, don't look at it as a means to get compensation or a reference. That'll help you phrase it better.

When you ring in sick, tell your boss you're not going to complete your final week, and they can take it out of your annual leave. If he refuses, he can pretty much shove it. You have nothing to lose, and you have to be paid for your annual leave anyway.

Lorri_L

Thank you very much for the help guys!

michaelanthony

Lorri_L wrote:

On Monday I handed in my notice in work. Only yesterday I was told that they cant accept my notice of two weeks and i'll have to give a month. I had a talk with my manager, who then, because I wouldn't give on to him, went to a director of the company. He spoke to me alone away from any other member of staff and was very intimidating, i ended up crying after this "little chat" (as he put it). Don't get me wrong, he did not raise his voice to me, but he made me fell as if I was wrong and being unfair in only giving them two weeks notice. He keeps referring back to my contract, which I am convinced is null and void. It says a different position then I am in at the minute, it also says I am earning 4k less than I actually am. But I persisted, and today was told that I could leave on the date set by my notice but because I was leaving in such a bad manner they can not give me a reference. This means a lot to my CV as I have only had two full time jobs since I left school, this being one of them. I really dont know what to do here as the job i was offered says at the very latest I can start in two weeks. Does anyone have any advice?

My former employers were very strict wrt working out my 4 weeks notice. In the end, I left after 2 weeks with the other 2 holidays that I had worked up.

Lorri_L

yeah i would do that but unfortunately my holidays go by calendar year so i cant. That would be the easiest way out of this that i could get