Italy!

DJKH

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10365282
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4645228.stm
Shooting a thief no longer a crime in Italy
Reuters
25.01.06 10.20am


ROME - Italy's parliament approved today a law that allows citizens to shoot robbers in self-defence, a measure that critics say will encourage people to take the law into their own hands.

The reform was championed by the populist Northern League party, which regularly calls for the castration of rapists.

It authorises the use of guns and knives as legitimate defence by victims of robberies and break-ins in their own house, workplace or in a shop, whether it is to protect someone's life or belongings.

"Today criminals will have more to fear while there will be fewer problems for honest people," said Justice Minister Roberto Castelli, who belongs to the Northern League.

The measure was put forward after a series of headline-grabbing cases in which shopkeepers were accused of manslaughter for killing their robbers and applies only if there is a "risk of aggression" for the victim of the break-in and no sign that the intruder is backing down.

The centre-left opposition, who voted against the new law, said it amounted to promoting "do-it-yourself" justice.

"This is a ... measure that delegates the use of force to citizens with the sole certain result of increasing the risks for people's safety," said Paolo Cento of the opposition Greens party.

The reform, which had languished before deputies for three years, is the latest in a flurry of measures rushed through parliament by the government ahead of a general election slated for April 9.

Riggser

What happens when the "robber" turns out not to be a robber? Family, friend, employee or next door neighbour who either gets in the way or is mistaken for a robber. I understand the urge to shoot someone that invades someone's home or threatens them, reasonable force is used here, but you only have to look over the other side of the pond to see how badly the yanks do it.

Rovi

Well, there IS this bit:

The measure ... applies only if there is a "risk of aggression" for the victim of the break-in and no sign that the intruder is backing down.

Which appears to be broadly similar to the 'reasonableness' test applied here.

The main thing I see is that it allows self defence as a legitimate reason for owning a firearm.


.

Clare gunner

Riggser wrote:

What happens when the "robber" turns out not to be a robber? Family, friend, employee or next door neighbour who either gets in the way or is mistaken for a robber.

I understand the urge to shoot someone that invades someone's home or threatens them, reasonable force is used here, but you only have to look over the other side of the pond to see how badly the yanks do it.QUOTE]

Rule one ID your target.
Dunno about the Yanks doing it too badly.You are more likely to die from choking on food over there than being shot by accident.Contrary to what handgun control Inc and the media tells you.Must be all the CCW permits that have been issued.Funnily enough accidental shooting has gone DOWN in all States that allow CCW..
Anyway,wonder why the Italians botherd with this.They are leathl to go shooting with.On average six Italian hunters get shot per season in Italy.Plus the do have a very effective alternative police force there,called the Mafia.:D

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Rule one ID your target.

Rule zero, don't assume someone under stress will remember the rules!

scorphonic

Sparks wrote:

Rule zero, don't assume someone under stress will remember the rules!

But its not necessary to remember a rule when a complete stranger is standing in front of you..you will instinctively know what to do.:cool:

Riggser

Are you sure there's only one stranger there?

From http://altonpolice.com/burglary.html

DANGEROUS SITUATIONS THAT COULD OCCUR DURING A BURGLARY
Generally, burglary is not a crime of violence. It is usually just a property type crime. However, if a burglar is caught in the act, or is cornered in a house, he may react violently in an effort to escape. Therefore, never confront a burglar if at all possible.


SITUATION #1. You are asleep in your bedroom and are awakened by what appears to be a burglar in the room.

Don't make any sound or movement that would alert the burglar that you have been awakened. Don't try to confront the burglar. Pretend that you are still asleep and have not been awakened by the intruder. Let the burglar take whatever he wants and give him an opportunity to escape. Don't try to run after him or chase him. Once you're sure he's gone, call the police.


SITUATION #2. You are asleep in your bedroom and are awakened by what appears to be a burglar who has broken into, or is attempting to break into, another part of your house. The burglar is not aware of your presence.

Do not confront the burglar. Do not investigate the situation or draw attention to yourself. There are too many things you do not know about the situation: How many intruders are there? Are they armed? Are they intoxicated or under the influence of drugs? Allow the burglar to take what ever he wants and leave. Do not interfere. If possible, and only if it is safe to do so, try to secure yourself and your location in the house, for example, by locking the bedroom door, or hiding in a closet and locking the door. If you can do so safely, get to a phone and call the police. I am a firm believer in having a phone in the bedroom, on a night- stand or on the floor by the bed. All one would have to do is reach out, grab the receiver and bring it to you under the covers of the bed. Tell the police that a burglar is in your house now and follow their instructions. If you cannot secure your position or call the police, allow the burglar the time to leave. If you can safely observe the burglar's escape, try to get the best possible description of the burglar, his vehicle and the direction of escape. After you are sure it's safe, call the police if you haven't already done so.

It is only human nature to become outraged and very angry with a burglar you see in your home. A natural reaction would be to violently respond or confront the burglar. You must keep your head and realize that a burglar can be a very dangerous criminal if cornered or confronted violently.


SITUATION #3. You and the burglar meet face to face while he is burglarizing your house.

Remain calm. Don't scream, yell out, cry out, or attempt any violent confrontation with the burglar. Don't attempt to run or escape unless you are absolutely sure you can do so without getting hurt or caught. DO EXACTLY AS THE BURGLAR TELLS YOU! NOTHING MORE OR NOTHING LESS! If the burglar wants to escape - let him do so. Remember, the burglar is probably as scared as you are and has a lot more to loose since he has now been discovered. Some things about your situation that you do not know are: (1) Is the burglar operating alone or is there another burglar somewhere else in the house? (2) Is the burglar under the influence or a drug or alcohol? (3) Is the burglar armed? There is no sense finding an answer to any of these questions. Without being too obvious, try to get a good look at the burglar and try to remember as much about him as you can. Should he flee, give him enough time to make his escape. Never run after or chase a burglar.


SITUATION #4.
You arrive home and notice that your door is unexpectedly open.

Don’t go inside. Back off and go to a safe place nearby, such as a neighbor’s house, and call the police. Don't make the assumption that maybe you just forgot to close the door when you left, or perhaps it did not latch when you pulled it closed. Call the police from a position of safety and let them investigate. Some people, when finding an open door, realize that they may have been burglarized, but make the false assumption that the burglars have already gone. These people then rush into the house to find out what the burglar might have taken. Whenever you find a door or a window unexpectedly open, treat it as if the house is being burglarized and the burglar is still in the house. Leave and call the police.

Make it a habit whenever you return home to routinely check your doors, widows, and their locks before you enter - for indications or evidence that somebody has forcibly entered. Such signs could be pry marks on doors, windows and their frames, and on any locks. If you find any evidence of an entry or an attempted entry, call the police immediately.

phantom_lord

Riggser wrote:

DO EXACTLY AS THE BURGLAR TELLS YOU!

Why not offer him a cup of tea while you're at it..."ah go on"....

Sparks

Well, long-term, which is the better option - to have been shot by the burglar's accomplice who you didn't see, or to lose your telly?

scout

loose the telly, what are you mad!!!!!

Sparks

Well, it's kindof ironic - I'm so busy with training to shoot straight, I never get to watch the thing anyway!

scout

Sparks wrote:

Well, it's kindof ironic - I'm so busy with training to shoot straight, I never get to watch the thing anyway!

i alwas shoot straight


just not in the right direction:rolleyes:

Hagar

*Cough* Parabolic Curve *Cough*

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Rule zero, don't assume someone under stress will remember the rules!

Ultimate rule.BE PREPARED!!Learn how to handle stress,Learn your house/busisness so well that you could navigate it blindfolded or in the dark.
Plan what you will do if you are going to use deadly force.That goes from you personally,your moral outlook on this to accepting the consequences of your actions.To what you will do if you have wife &kids in the house,where will they be and what will they do if there is a break in.Home defence goes alot more than what type of gun and gung ho attitude you have.

Clare gunner

Riggser wrote:

Are you sure there's only one stranger there?

Hmm Alton Pd .It is standard advice handed out by most PDs.However it is still no grauntee that will be the end of it.Have a read of "Dail 911 and die". published by JPFO.
Your basic security really sucks if the SOB is in your bedroom and you didnt wake up:rolleyes: