The fall of Christianity for the vbulletin Generation

Raphael

Found this while looking through my Writing folder...pretty sure i've never put it on boardsie before... Tis an off the wall analogy I came up with to explain to a friend my problems with the roman catholic church

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Consider, as an example, a message board. Now, this board has been created to form a community for the discussion of string, and string realted issues. The administrative staff want merely to provide an environment in which its users can discuss their string related problems and suchlike

But then, you get people who just want to be moderators. They don't care about string, they just want those extra powers that they feel will make them better than anyone else. In any sensible forum structure these people would not get squat, but, for the purposes of this example we shall say that StringBoard is a very tolerant organism, and grants them these positions

Now, in the off-chance that StringBoard becomes hugely succesful, and we'll assume it does, it is inevitable that its original creators and administrators will get bored and wander off. On a long enough timescale, they may even die out. When these people have left, those mods who don't care about shoes will creep higher in the organizational structure of StringBoards

Then one day, the entire adminisistratave staff of StringBoards is composed of these power hungry men. One Thursday afternoon they have a short discussion in IRC, and realise that strings just don't cut it. So, they decide to change it all utterly. The next day, poor Johnny Stringlover logs on, and finds that his beloved StringBoards is about... oh i don't know, shoes or something. It's still called StringBoard, but all discussion of string is now punishable by a permanant IP ban

And that's how christianity works... well, sort of

lilmissprincess

Interesting theory, I guess. Yeah, its pretty off the wall. Find ten people who want a board about string, and you've probably got a Christianity argument.

Zillah

It kinda works. Its a bit too inelegant to properly represent the situation and you swap "string" and "shoes" accidently a couple of times before you were meant to I think.

Lothaar

I think it relates more to communism than Christianity tbh.

Raphael

Zillah: Piss, thought i edited that

Lothaar: That is a damn fine point. Never looked at it like that before

Edit: re-reading it again, it's definately more communism esque.

Earthhorse

Eh, Christianity and Communism are pretty similar in what they preach when you get down to it.

Le Rack

"these power hungry men." And why not women?
That makes a suprising amount of sense, but you and your wacky theories always do....

Did you ever try pose to a nun or priest that "god" is evil, and have a good theory for it too? Oh that is fun!

Anyway what if people try to broaden the string discussion to different types of string? I mean, you've got twine, and then you've got bailing twine, it's a whole other kettle of fish, or ball of string if you will. What happens then?

Zillah

Le Rack wrote:

Did you ever try pose to a nun or priest that "god" is evil, and have a good theory for it too?

What, pray tell, is your good theory?

hullaballoo

The argument that's been made between communism and catholicism is valid in a sense. But have you ever read 'Animal Farm' by George Orwell?

Now, we're told that the book is a commentary on communism, and I can see how that works. However, I think it's more a commentary on mankind in general.

It struck me immediately that your analogy fits into the same category as George Orwell's. Thus, it's simply a matter of construction.

Personally, I think that if you expanded your analogy so that it made a story, you could write a very successful book.

Well done.

Raphael

Animal Farm is brilliant, I am immensely flattered that you;d compare my work to Orwells. But making this into a book? That's what I'd like to call over-carrying an analogy. Though it could take a bit of expansion... *ponders*

hullaballoo

Oh sorry, I didn't mean that you should carry the analogy right the way through the book. I just thought that the underlying idea could produce a fairly worthwhile read. You'd have to do some advanced pondering on life to pull it off though.

Le Rack

Zillah wrote:

What, pray tell, is your good theory?

If all men are made in gods image, and there is so much evil in the world, then therefore there must be some degree of evil in god.

They can't actually argue it, the general reply I get is "But it's based upon your faith" which doesn't answer the question and "But there's always an opposing force to every other, good versus evil..etc." That was the best responce I've gotten, from a nun. I got into a two hour argument with a born again christian and his family once.... yeash... they really don't have a clue, the big preacher one's! They just keep going round in circles! But a priest did agree once....

If we ever see a book being released called "The Strings" by Raphael Connery we'll know who it is!

hullaballoo

LeRack wrote:

If all men are made in gods image, and there is so much evil in the world, then therefore there must be some degree of evil in god.

I think the idea is that we're created to look like God, not to be like Him.

Le Rack

hullaballoo wrote:

I think the idea is that we're created to look like God, not to be like Him.

it's in every aspect. afaik.

Raphael

Hmm to test that theory...

* Raphael parts the red sea

* Raphael fails

Therefore, we can;t be made to be like him, just be similar to him on an aesthetic basis. Which, unfortunatly, means taht a large amount of god is quite ugly

hullaballoo: Hmmmm.... I like the way you think

Le Rack

eugh! imagine if god looked like Griffen! Oh dear lord!
Why am I speaking like so? I'm an atheist!

lilmissprincess

Religion is somewhat meaningless, and its all a charade of living life thinking that we're gonna get a good thing at the end of it. The Bible contradicts itself every five seconds, ( we're all gods children, but Jesus is his only son-what are the guys, God's daughters?) and it just distracts us from real world. Religious wars are basically a competition, MY God is better than yours, so pointless. Perhaps if we worshipped string however...ah, thats a thought.

Zillah

Le Rack wrote:

If all men are made in gods image, and there is so much evil in the world, then therefore there must be some degree of evil in god.

I assume the many arguments were caused by the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Man is evil because in his free will he has turned from God and allowed himself to be tempted by Satan. In that regard we brought evil upon ourselves.

There are many many far far superior arguments for God being evil.

lilmissprincess wrote:

Religion is somewhat meaningless, and its all a charade of living life thinking that we're gonna get a good thing at the end of it. The Bible contradicts itself every five seconds, ( we're all gods children, but Jesus is his only son-what are the guys, God's daughters?) and it just distracts us from real world. Religious wars are basically a competition, MY God is better than yours, so pointless. Perhaps if we worshipped string however...ah, thats a thought.

:eek:

My response would have to be moved to the thunderdome. Suffice to say, your understanding of the role of religion and its influence in war is grossly innacurate.

Lothaar

Zillah wrote:

My response would have to be moved to the thunderdome.

Hahaha! Classic. (You're referring to the Mad Max thing, right? Not some sub-forum where people write really scathing posts??)

Back to the OP - I agree that there are parallels between this analogy and Animal Farm. In fact, the entire analogy follows the same progression as Animal Farm, which is precisely what prompted my earlier post saying it was more about communism.
Animal Farm does indeed address issues concerning all of mankind, and human behaviour, but it's specifically focused on communism and its failings.

Le Rack

Zillah wrote:

I assume the many arguments were caused by the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Man is evil because in his free will he has turned from God and allowed himself to be tempted by Satan. In that regard we brought evil upon ourselves.

There are many many far far superior arguments for God being evil.

That's my opinion of it anyhu, and yes "god" did give us free will but that in itself contains the evil. If he wanted us all to be "good and perfect" like himself then he wouldn't have given us the free wil that he too must have, with the evil. And then he himself must too be tempted by Satan.

My god it's hard to type with a sling!

Zillah

If we're talking about the Christian God (as opposed to some undefined unvierse creator) then your opinion is irelevant, we're discussing fact; the teachings of the bible.

"god" did give us free will but that in itself contains the evil.

Free will contains nothing. It is just that; freewill. We do with it as we see fit. And if we had followed His teachings then we would not be evil, but Eve, that troublesome cow, ruined it all.

And even if free will did have evil inherent in it, does that automatically make God evil? If I release a slave from my ownership, and that slave kills someone years later, does that make me a murderer?

Le Rack

that's doesn't fit at all, you didn't create the slave?

I dunno, lie I understand where you're coming from but I just can't believe in that whole thing and I do not stand by any of the catholic beliefs and "laws" cuz a lot of the stuff is ridiculous, but that's my opinion and I respect other peoples beliefs and tolerate them but it's not my thing.

Sarky

Don't you think theological debate might be better suited to, say, ooh, one of the religion boards?

Zillah

Sarky wrote:

Don't you think theological debate might be better suited to, say, ooh, one of the religion boards?

Yes, probably, but its just an aside.

LeRack wrote:

that's doesn't fit at all, you didn't create the slave?

I dunno, lie I understand where you're coming from but I just can't believe in that whole thing and I do not stand by any of the catholic beliefs and "laws" cuz a lot of the stuff is ridiculous, but that's my opinion and I respect other peoples beliefs and tolerate them but it's not my thing.

I don't believe it either but if you want to discuss God in terms of christianity then its a complete cop out to bail out and say you don't believe it. Your belief is not neccessary for the discussion.

Gaillimhtaibhse

Raphael wrote:

Then one day, the entire adminisistratave staff of StringBoards is composed of these power hungry men.

The "Peter Principle"?:rolleyes: Oh, not to be confused with anything St. Peter may have said.

Raphael

Peter Principle: "People tend to be promoted up to a level of their own incompetence"

Assuming that's what you mean (it's what a quick google turned up) then no, that's not what I meant. The rise of the power hungry people is due to their own greed and lust for power. Look at it this way:

Adam and Bill both work in a shoeshop. Bill just likes Shoes, but Adam just wants the power that comes with the rank of a shoe-shop higher up type person. A tie, or a badge or something.

Anywayses, Bill is going to be content to remain at the bottom of the shoeladder. He'd be willing to move up, but he's happy just to be apart of general...um...shoeity?

Adam, the power hungry git, won't accept being at the bottom, and he'll strive to move up. Now, most people like Adam get nowhere. But Quantum theory dictates that anything is possible, so there's someone out there who is power hungrsy and cunning enough to get away with it. So, if Adam's one of them, he'll be Bills boss soon.

That's what I was going for.

lilmissprincess

I can see a new book of all these theories on stings and shoes coming out, a best seller on the communist religiousness of shoes...bit like Watership Down, if you put the rabbits ( in this case the shoes/strings) aside, you've got politics. Sorry it can't be a reference to Orwell, but I never really got around to reading it.

Gaillimhtaibhse

Gaillimhtaibhse drinks the third cup of java, eyes bug out, and with that, also sees a piece of creative writing emerge. There's this old woman. She lives in this huge shoe. Has too many children. So many children that the laces are coming apart. Oops! I think this story has already been written.

Gaillimhtaibhse looks into the image floating in her cup and attempts to get serious (sorry, it doesn't happen often). If a book were to be written, a consistent use of metaphor for creative writing may be useful? Perhaps in the Sci Fi genre? It's high tech oriented and religious themes have often been successfully exploited within the story. Think "The Matrix." Think "Dune."

Le Rack

Zillah wrote:

Yes, probably, but its just an aside.



I don't believe it either but if you want to discuss God in terms of christianity then its a complete cop out to bail out and say you don't believe it. Your belief is not neccessary for the discussion.

Well just the example you gave of the slave killer thing didn't seem to fit the discusion at all to me...

I've dicussed this whole thing to death so many times though! :rolleyes:

Raph where in the name of Shoelords do you come up with all your theories?
I can just imagine your thesis on advanced physics or something for fourth year college being about oh I dunno... shiny silver ribbon or something...