NTL - PVRs

Rosser

Hey,

Does anyone know how NTLs plans are progressing on introducing PVRs? Was in the US recently and used a Tivo which was great so the sooner NTL get their act together the better or it could be Sky+ time!

Cheers,

paulm17781

I think before the end of 2005, much like their new phone service. :rolleyes:

Hopefully when the Chorus merger is complete they will start to get PVRs out.

bk

Rosser wrote:

Does anyone know how NTLs plans are progressing on introducing PVRs? Was in the US recently and used a Tivo which was great so the sooner NTL get their act together the better or it could be Sky+ time!

I have a US TiVo working with NTL Digital and it works great

However it is relatively very difficult to setup with lots of technical experience required.

NTL:UK (now a completely separate company from NTL:IE) is working on a 3 tuner, high def, 160GB PVR with builtin support for cable BB and VoD, sweet.

I've heard nothing about Ireland other then they say they will have one at some undefined point in the future :rolleyes:

watty

PVRs that work with cable exist. But without support of NTL they may not work with your viewing card.

Rosser

cheers all, it's NTL so I won't hold my breath

stoneroses

Hey Rosser,

Maybe we should give them a break. NTL Ireland are now UPC owned. Lets see what they will bring to improve the situation.

p

I have a homebuilt PVR which runs fine on NTL cable (not digital)

It was a bit of work getting it setup, but not insane.

It's a small mini-itx machine with a TV Card, running GB-PVR software. It grabs the listings from the web and displays everything on my TV screen.

It's not quite as smooth an experience as Tivo, but it's about as good as you'll get until NTL get their act in gear.

I've heard of people hacking UK Tivo's to work over here too though.

watty

I thought the GB-PVR sw fairly horrid compared with most Satellite TV software. I use IU-VCR from IULabs for Analog TV recording. But a shop bought analog in HDD/DVDr is goining to suit most people better.

watty

I had a Tivo. But while nearly acceptible from Aerial, re-encoding Sky Digibox output was worse than S-VHS, but then I have a decent S-VHS. Hard to get tapes cheap, So a added a 200G disk to my PC.

SouperComputer

I have a US TiVo working with NTL Digital and it works great

Got any links for this, id be interested into looking further into it.

gs39t

p wrote:

I have a homebuilt PVR which runs fine on NTL cable (not digital)

It was a bit of work getting it setup, but not insane.

It's a small mini-itx machine with a TV Card, running GB-PVR software. It grabs the listings from the web and displays everything on my TV screen.

It's not quite as smooth an experience as Tivo, but it's about as good as you'll get until NTL get their act in gear.

I've heard of people hacking UK Tivo's to work over here too though.

I have an Hauppage PVR 350, connected ntl box > VCR > card, but how do you set it up as a PVR when the analog tuner cant detect or change digital channels?

bk

gs39t wrote:

I have an Hauppage PVR 350, connected ntl box > VCR > card, but how do you set it up as a PVR when the analog tuner cant detect or change digital channels?

I suppose the same way that I use my TiVo. You use something called an IR Blaster which acts like a remote for the NTL box. When you change the channel on the PC, it sends the IR signal to the NTL box which actually changes the chaneel. The PVR card basically records whatever the NTL box sends via Scart.

Of course all of this depends on what software you use on the PC and if the software supports this feature.

bk

It is interesting to note that UPC Netherlands * is going to be introducing an HD MPEG4/2 PVR box with Euro-DOCSIS support (cable BB) from Philips this year and that they plan on rolling it out to the other UPC markets after that.

No details on hard drive size, number of tuners (hopefully three like NTL UK) or cost.

http://www.press.ce.philips.com/apps/c_dir/e3379701.nsf/0/276DEE0D5E32C756C125709600425635?opendocument

* Sorry forgot to add that UPC is the brand name used by LGI, Chorus and NTL:Irelands owners.

gs39t

bk wrote:

I suppose the same way that I use my TiVo. You use something called an IR Blaster which acts like a remote for the NTL box. When you change the channel on the PC, it sends the IR signal to the NTL box which actually changes the chaneel. The PVR card basically records whatever the NTL box sends via Scart.

Of course all of this depends on what software you use on the PC and if the software supports this feature.

Oh, so its not set-and-forget? Like, you cant set it to record 2 things on 2 different channels and off you go. Seems like what im doing now is just as easy - set the NTL box to auto-tune to whatever i want recorded, start recording, come back 7 hours later and edit the 2 shows out of a 30GB file

bk

gs39t wrote:

Oh, so its not set-and-forget? Like, you cant set it to record 2 things on 2 different channels and off you go. Seems like what im doing now is just as easy - set the NTL box to auto-tune to whatever i want recorded, start recording, come back 7 hours later and edit the 2 shows out of a 30GB file

No, it is set and forget, as long as you have the correct software. If you use Windows MCE or MythTV PVR software (and I'm sure there are other products available), then they have their own EPG's. You tell the software to record every episode of the Simpsons for instance and the software on the PC will use the IR blaster to change the channel on the NTL box at the correct time and start recording. It then stops recording later and it can change the NTL box to a different channel to start recording at a later time.

The advantage is that you use much less space, you only record the show you want and you only have to setup the recordings once and the EPG should automatically take care of it.

watty

SouperComputer wrote:

Got any links for this, id be interested into looking further into it.

Tivo is no longer sold in British Isles. They are in big trouble in their remaining market. Not something to invest money and time in unless you already have one.

Tenshot

watty wrote:

Tivo is no longer sold in British Isles. They are in big trouble in their remaining market. Not something to invest money and time in unless you already have one.

The UK second-hand market in Tivos (on eBay UK) has been remarkably buoyant over the past few years ... they are still selling consistently in the £100-£200 price range.

It's well worth the effort to get one up and running. You need NTL digital rather than analogue for the UK models (since they don't tune the VHF frequencies used by NTL analogue); SCART input works fine, as does NTL channel change.

You do need to do a bit of Linux hacking to get the channel lineups in tune with NTL Ireland, and of course you need both a valid NTL Digital and Tivo UK subscription (the latter at £10 per month).

But after the initial setup hassle, it works brilliantly; you'll never look back.

bk

Tenshot wrote:

But after the initial setup hassle, it works brilliantly; you'll never look back.

I can second that, it is brilliant (I went the more complicated US route).

rogue-entity

TiVo boxes run Linux and have a PowerPC processor IIRC. So it should not be too difficult to modify the software to remove the need for a sub and to obtain the EPG data from elsewhere.

BTW, how can you get a US TiVo box to work with NTL analogue?

bk

rogue-entity wrote:

BTW, how can you get a US TiVo box to work with NTL analogue?

You need to use a VCR. You plug the cable into the VCR and use the tuner in the VCR. You then plug the video output of the VCR into the Tivo, you then use the IR-Blaster in the TiVO to change the channels on the VCR.

Alternatively, if you have the skills you can replace the TiVo NTSC tuner with a Pal tuner, but this requires serious soldering skills.

watty

Unless you have a very strange VHS that won't help. You will get B&W video with no sound. It isn't the Tuner head. There is little difference it is the Video and Audio IF and Color Decoder. Or unless the TIVO really supports PAL anyway and it is just the frequency is strange. Or it wasn't really a USA Tivo.

What you describe works for a UK tivo that has UHF only tuner and no VHF for the pathetic quality Chorus or NTL basic analog channels on VHF. There is no way that will work for a true USA Tivo.

It running Linux does not make it easy. Just theortically possible. As much so as if it was running embedded NT.

Adding Ethernet is more simple as this is meant to be in Linux anyway.

rogue-entity

I have been reading up on TiVo and in principle it is a good design. But replacing the Tuner with a PAL version and getting it working, not to mention sourcing the Guide data for Analogue NTL (possible as the data is transmitted on the network for the digital versions of those channels) would be beyond my expertise. So I would only be able to use it as a dumb PVR and it would be useless to me unless I could get it to output in PAL I.

It would be better if I could simply source an STB sized case, a small motherboard, a suitable processor, a hardware MPEG Encoder/Decoder, TV tuner, large HDD, IR Receiver, a TV output with an RF modulator and a SCART (with RGB) connector and a sound card with phono connectors. Add to this a copy of Debian Linux and MythTV configured to use the onboard MPEG encoder/decoder instead of the Software version (less reliable with less powerful hardware & more powerful hardware means more heat and fans).

I already have a Sanyo DVR V100E DVD/VHS Recorder that I suspect runs an embedded OS (like a digibox it takes a good while to boot). So I would be connecting any PVR that I get to it in order to transfer recordings to DVD. I do wonder if any electronics hobbyists if it would be possible to convert this into a PVR.

bk

watty wrote:

Unless you have a very strange VHS that won't help. You will get B&W video with no sound. It isn't the Tuner head. There is little difference it is the Video and Audio IF and Color Decoder. Or unless the TIVO really supports PAL anyway and it is just the frequency is strange. Or it wasn't really a USA Tivo.

It does work, I used this method before I started using NTL Digital. Yes, it is a series 1 US TiVo (given to me by a colleague from the US when he upgraded to Series 2), given the number of hours I spent hacking the OS and hardware on this I think I should know.

A US TiVo can handle PAL just fine, the only problem is that the turner is not compatible with PAL transmissions. A US Series 1 TiVo and a UK TiVo are exactly the same except for the turner and slighly different OS version.

There are three ways to input video to a TiVo:
1) Tuner (NTSC in US Models)
2) Video Port
3) S-Video port

A US TiVo can record PAL transmission just fine through either the Video port or the S-Video port. What I do with the VCR is receive PAL signal via aerial cable, tune into the channel using the VCR tuner and then output the channel using either the video or S-video port on the VCR and then into the TiVo's, video or S-Video input port.

If you have the skill you can replace the NTSC tuner with a PAL tuner and therefore skip the need for the VCR, you can find details here:
http://www.members.westnet.com.au/kingey1971/tivo/paltunermod.htm

It is certainly not for the faint of heart.

BTW the fact that TiVo runs Linux makes it highly hackable, you can make a TiVo do some amazing things.

BBTW you can use the same tricks to get the TiVo working with Sky, FTA sat or terrestial.

watty

By tuner you must mean entire RF +IF receiver. Well, S-Video from Digital NTL box via RGB to S-Video convertor will be best quality. Or a standalone TV tuner. But going via VHS RF port to Composite (or S-Video) out actually goes through a lot of the VHS record and playback and AGC circuits (try feeding Sky Box office this way and the Macrovison makes VHS video out mad). A few places (Distel?) sell standalone TV tuner/receivers with RF in and video/audio out.

I think hacking either Tivo SW or HW is not for faint of heart and given my past time consuming efforts on Tivo, I'd rather invest that amount of Linux effort on a Dreambox.

I expect UPC will have SD /HD cable PVRs soon. Telewest are ahead on both PVR and HD front in British Isles Cable TV. Customers actually have them already.

bk

watty wrote:

By tuner you must mean entire RF +IF receiver. Well, S-Video from Digital NTL box via RGB to S-Video convertor will be best quality. Or a standalone TV tuner. But going via VHS RF port to Composite (or S-Video) out actually goes through a lot of the VHS record and playback and AGC circuits (try feeding Sky Box office this way and the Macrovison makes VHS video out mad). A few places (Distel?) sell standalone TV tuner/receivers with RF in and video/audio out.

Yes, NTL Digital definitely offers better picture quality, I'm just saying it is possible with analogue since rogue-entity asked.

watty wrote:

I think hacking either Tivo SW or HW is not for faint of heart and given my past time consuming efforts on Tivo, I'd rather invest that amount of Linux effort on a Dreambox.

Certainly not for the faint of heart, but for tech geeks it is a lot of fun, next project will probably be a monster MythTV media centre/PVR.

watty wrote:

I expect UPC will have SD /HD cable PVRs soon. Telewest are ahead on both PVR and HD front in British Isles Cable TV. Customers actually have them already.

UPC Norway will be offering HD PVR's this year, with the other UPC territories (I assume including Ireland) following soon afterwards.

I'd say this year UPC Ireland will be focusing on merging the companies, rebranding, standardising the product offerings, pushing out 100+ channel digital to cable and MMDS in Chorus areas, improving BB availability, launching voice service and upgrading the entire network to 860MHz. I'd say HD and PVR's will come next year.

Either way a MythTV box is going to be far more versatile.