Back on The Track

Vmaxer

The T-maxx is dusted off and battreys are charged ready to go, thinking back to when I last run the truck I gave up because it kept dying out when I was trying to tune it, then the 2 x 2.100mAh battreys went weak and couldn't start it up again. So today I have gone onto Ebay and picked up a couple of 3.300mAh NIMH battreys and I hope these will sort out the starting problem, I also picked up some genuine traxxas glow plugs or do these make a difference?. Either way I'm not giving up easy this time...
Just have to keep in mind "lean clockwise and rich anticlockwise" :rolleyes:

vectra

I use "OS no.8" glo plugs and find they last out better than the traxxas one.
The problem with the starting is that the battery in the eazystart has to do two jobs at one time.
"spin the engine" while at the same time "Heating the glo plug"
If you go and buy a seperate gloplug heater and discard the wire on top of the gloplug you will find the engine will spin better thus improving starting.
In other words... "Doing two jobs at once kills the battery".. In fact. If your 2100's are Nicads (which i would assume they are._ You might find that they would sping the engine faster as they pack more "Punch" than the 3300 Nimh's that you bought. The benefit of the 3300's is that they will keep spinning longer than the 2100's.
Hope this makes sence to you..;)
OH.
By the way.
Hope you enjoy the max as you shold this time round and dont give up too easy

Vmaxer

Thats interesting what you say about nicd and nimh, I never knew that nicd packed more punch than nimh, and that nimh are the duracell of the rechargables. I must get onto Ebay and have a look for a glow starter if it makes things easier, I also assumed that if you removed the cable off the glow plug when the truck was running I it would die out, but I assume that there is no power going to the plug when the truck is running.

I'm going to try run it on some year old Model Technics dyna glow 16..

Hopefully its still OK

vectra

Dynaglo might be ok once it was kept closed tight and not opened from time to time.

Also,
nitro engines are similar to a diesel engine. In both a nitro and diesel engine, a glow plug is energized during starting which causes the element to heat up and glow (hence the name "glow" plugs). This hot, glowing plug ignites the air/fuel mixture. Once the engine is started, the power source to the glow plug is turned off and the element continues to glow from the heat of combustion. So, the glow plug is energized only during initial start up, and after the nitro rc engine starts to run the combustion process is self sustaining and the engine will usually continue to run until the nitro fuel runs out in the tank.

T-Maxx

vectra wrote:

I use "OS no.8" glo plugs and find they last out better than the traxxas one.:D

Whether it outlast the Traxxas plug or not is debatable and depends on a lot of things, not least of which is proper tuning.

What is not debatable is that the OS #8 plug is not the correct plug for the TRX2.5, which requires a standard long plug.

vectra wrote:

If your 2100's are Nicads (which i would assume they are._ You might find that they would sping the engine faster as they pack more "Punch" than the 3300 Nimh's that you bought. The benefit of the 3300's is that they will keep spinning longer than the 2100's.:D

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind this?

vectra

T-Maxx wrote:

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind this?

Have you ever raced electric RC cars ?

coolwings

T-Maxx wrote:

....What is not debatable is that the OS #8 plug is not the correct plug for the TRX2.5, which requires a standard long plug.

This is a little bit like saying that my automobile can only run on Esso petrol but never on Shell or Statoil petrol. As long as the flashpoint of the fuel is similar any one will do.

All glowplugs are rated by the heat level they glow at. So glowplugs are "hot", "medium," "cold" or "very cold".

High compression engines or engines that run hot, or engines sucking "hot" fuel eg 16% nitro+ will burn out weak glowplugs which glow too hot, and the element burns out exactly like an old light bulb.

"Cold" glowplugs have the toughest element inside, which resists high compression abuse. The OS No 8 glowplug is a "cold" plug, tried and tested and favoured by many. Other suitable plugs are Model Technics F4, and Rossi C6. These particular glowplugs have been used in competition by thousands of modellers, and their track record both in performance, and in longevity is well known.

The way "you" tune "your engine" will influence which of these plugs becomes "your favourite glowplug". But you will have a favourite, because one will suit your engine-fuel-tuning setup better than the others. So you try them and find out.

When you have tried different glowplugs , the odds are you will choose the OS No8 Vectra recommended, or the substitutes I mentioned, ahead of the makers plugs.

coolwings

T-Maxx wrote:

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind this?

OK....Nimh batteries usually have a higher internal resistance than nickel cadmium batteries. So the power flowing out must overcome this resistance while coming out, and that small workload, reduces the power out slightly.

To put it another way:
A nimh is like a big water tank with a skinny little hose coming out of it.
But a nicad is like a smaller tank with a big wide hose.
The nicad gets out more in a given time, but doesn't last so long.

The best and latest nimhs are exceptions, but they are not the ones sold in cheap packages on the internet deal prices. You gotta ask and pay extra for them.
As Vectra said, the leccie racers know all about the difference, if they don't, they lose.

vectra

coolwings wrote:

The best and latest nimhs are exceptions, but they are not the ones sold in cheap packages on the internet deal prices. You gotta ask and pay extra for them.
Once again, the leccie racers know all about the difference, if they don't, they lose.

Well as far as I am concerned the Nicad's pack more punch than the Nimh's do BUT...!! Only in stick form..

In my electric race car I had Sanyo 2400 Nicads {saddle packs} They outran any 3,000 - 3,300 Nimh Stick packs in a race. ( and some 3,000 Saddle packs... These would be equal to the "Cheap internet Packages" you mention

Now I have advanced to using GP3,700 Nimh packs { Proffessional spec cells}
and they are simply awesome.

Unfortunately they would not fit in the hand starter of my Revo or T-Maxx.

coolwings

If you are using GPs use them hot off the charger, they are better this way.
Their most efficient temp is 55 degrees (bathwater temp??)
I can get 50 amps continuous from GP3300s cold, or burst 70 amps but with a voltage dropoff within 30 seconds.
But if they are hot, I can hold continuous at 70 amps, no voltage falloff or rpm reductions.

Used this way the GP will hammer the RCs. As they age the RCs will catch up and pass the GPs out though. They seem yto have a shorter lifespan as the capacity goes up.

T-Maxx

Yeah, I guess the folks at Traxxas don't know which plugs are best for their engines...

vectra

T-Maxx wrote:

Yeah, I guess the folks at Traxxas don't know which plugs are best for their engines...

Or maybe just a marketing ploy as I am dead certain they would much prefer to sell their own products than give free advertising the the likes of "OS"


You seem to know quite a lot about the T-Maxx..
Remind me again which fuel do Traxxas say to only use ? :rolleyes:

coolwings

T-Maxx wrote:

Yeah, I guess the folks at Traxxas don't know which plugs are best for their engines...

They know perfectly well which ones are best. These ones they will put in "their own model" (and so will we ! )

They also know what glowplugs are easiest to get it started, (when possibly mis-tuned by a beginner ) even if that glowplug only lasts a fortnight......
The idiot proof one is the one they will recommend......not the best one.

T-Maxx

vectra wrote:

Or maybe just a marketing ploy as I am dead certain they would much prefer to sell their own products than give free advertising the the likes of "OS"

They do however recommend the OS LC3.;)

ViperGTS

Ther can be so much sarcasim on the forum. People are here to offer advice and answer peoples questions. They're not on here to force there opinions on anyone. What you think is right might be a different view to someone else, does'nt mean either wrong though

ViperGTS

Norman,
I'm looking to follow Vectra's advice and remove the blue wire from the ez-start wiring harness and get a glow-plug ignitor. Any ideas where or how much a decent ignitor, charger and plug might cost me in Dublin.
Anyone else with help please feel free to answer

T-Maxx

Just curious, why do you address Norman and then through in "Anyone else with help please feel free to answer"?

coolwings

ViperGTS wrote:

...I'm looking to follow Vectra's advice and remove the blue wire from the ez-start wiring harness and get a glow-plug ignitor. Any ideas where or how much a decent ignitor, charger and plug might cost me in Dublin....

It will prevent brownout on the glowplug at the moment the starter motor kicks the engine if you do this, so I agree that it is a better way.
The glowstart sets go for €15-30 in Dublin depends on the make. E25 gets ok stuff IMHO.
We got 7amphour nicads for use with the glowclips via a lead. They would take forever to go down during use, (the average glowstart has a 1.5 to 1.7 amp hour cell inside). It helps to be able to solder if you choose this route.

ViperGTS

Happy to answer your curiosity.
He and Vectra were the main people giving input on the subject. Vectra is in Cork and although he was the one who started talking about them, I did'nt think he'd know where in Dublin to get them. Anything i've been advised about on purchasing has been from Greene Hobby. He seems to know an AWFUL lot about stock and prices so I thought it easier to "direct" the question his way.

ViperGTS

coolwings wrote:

The glowstart sets go for €15-30 in Dublin depends on the make. E25 gets ok stuff IMHO.

E25???

coolwings

ViperGTS wrote:

E25???

I'm generalising there - an average figure....
(popular way)
Glowstart set incl charger €26.
or
(preferable way-portable)
7000mAh nicad abt €15, single-cell charger (if u need one)€15, leads with glowclip for soldering onto single cell €10
or
(my way-heavier) 12V battery + glowleads €10 + mini transformer 12V-2V €19 - charge it up once a month, use as much as you like, also has adjustable power output to the glowplug to brighten it up for "slow" engines.
It is similar to the power panel used by aircraft guys, but more compact.

ViperGTS

I've got loads of 12v batteries. (they're dc though) I get them in work from emergency lighting set ups. Is it better to go this way or is it too much hassle to be lugging the weight around?

ViperGTS

coolwings wrote:

I'm generalising there - an average figure....
(popular way)
Glowstart set incl charger €26.
or
(preferable way-portable)
7000mAh nicad abt €15, single-cell charger (if u need one)€15, leads with glowclip for soldering onto single cell €10
or
(my way-heavier) 12V battery + glowleads €10 + mini transformer 12V-2V €19 - charge it up once a month, use as much as you like, also has adjustable power output to the glowplug to brighten it up for "slow" engines.
It is similar to the power panel used by aircraft guys, but more compact.

Very sorry. I thought E25 was a shop. I'd seen the € sign before it and never thought

Vmaxer

Don't mean to go away from the glow starter which I will look into aswell, but I had the Tmaxx out today and only got 5-10 minuites out of it before it chewed up the spurr gear, is this normal and also should I replace it with a metal one.. The one that went today was the origional and I haven't replaced anything on the Tmaxx yet, are the trickey to fit??

coolwings

ViperGTS wrote:

I've got loads of 12v batteries. (they're dc though) I get them in work from emergency lighting set ups. Is it better to go this way or is it too much hassle to be lugging the weight around?

They are perfect!
Here is a pic of the way I am set up. It is easier to explain if you see it....
The glowclip has twin wire leads that join to the glow driver (12V in - 2V out)
It has the little adjuster screw adjustment to brighten or dim the glowplug element if required.
The glow driver has twin wires to go to a power source....I have soldered spade plugs for a 12V battery (7Ah), and Tamiya plug for a 6-7 cell nicad "stick" and crocodile clips for bigger 12V batteries or car battery if needed.

So this arrangement does everything for me.

vectra

T-Maxx wrote:

Just curious, why do you address Norman and then through in "Anyone else with help please feel free to answer"?

Just curious myself..!!

Could you please enlighten the fellow members of this board that try to give advice why in the name of god do you try to contradict everyone ?

Fobia

Take it easy people - we're all friends here..

g5hn710m4xpdwy

were all one great big happy family that feast on nitro
thats normal right? :P
coolwings your setup would be much handyer than just the glow started alone cause i have gone out then to find i have to recharge it

coolwings

Well maybe ... it suits me.
The ordinary glowstart has no cables to wrap around an airplane propeller though, so that's a potential problem the leads can have. You get used to keeping track of where the leads are afetr a while....
I needed something that worked with everything, and as compact as possible.

ViperGTS

Thats some set up.
Is the black box just a step-down transformer? Adjustable? Is 2v all it takes to heat the plug? I've been tinkering around with a couple of batteries and different spades/sockets on each on just to see which is handier. I think crimping the spades was the easiest b/c it saved time on soldering and i've loadsa them floatin around my tool bag.

Thanks for the help
John

coolwings

All of the glowplugs nowadays are rated 1.5 volts. The 3v type are extinct.
So technically a D cell should be enough with a glowclip and lead.
However the dry cell chemistry can't put out the power so C size nicads have become popular, especially in the cartridge handle type glowstarts which are so convenient.
But if you use a D size in nicad with the leads, it is a great system and is lighter to carry than the 12v battery , glow-driver and leads.
The glow driver is a smart little thing, it transforms 12v down to 2v (so you can really turn the glowplugs on a hard to start car), and that also means that it can be used as a glowstart charger too. I haven't used mine for that yet since I have plenty of chargers from other stuff.