Airbags

ds20prefecture

Hi folks, I would appreciate your advice. Sorry if this is a bit long winded.

Do any of you have experience of disabling the passenger-side airbag in a 2000 Škoda Octavia, or indeed any car? I plan to fit a rear-facing child seat in the car and I'm getting a lot of sharp intakes of breath.

I've notified my insurance company of the intention to do this, and they are happy enough as long as it is done by a Škoda dealer and they get a report to state it has been done correctly. The will issue a letter beforehand to me authorising the dealer to carry out the change.

A few people I have spoken to about this have suggested that even if the airbag is disconnected it could still go off in an impact. This would not be good, setting off an explosive charge inches from the back of the child's head. There were some mumblings that this event would not be covered by insurance (as if that were the important thing if your child was injured!)

Is there a big difference, effort wise, between removing the airbag and disconnecting it? The dealer estimated 3 hours to disconnect as it involves disconnecting, rewiring and reprogramming of the computer to ensure the other airbag is not disabled at the same time.

The alternative of fitting the seat in the back has two drawbacks - the bloody seatbelts aren't long enough :mad: and I believe not having the child in view will be more distracting than having it a glance away.

Any advice welcome.

colm_mcm

removing it isn't really an option. disconnecting and rewiring it makes much more sense, but at €60 plus the VAT per hour you're talking over 200 quid to disconnect and the same again to connect again. there's no other way around it though, apart from having the child in the back

Litcagral

ds20prefecture wrote:

The alternative of fitting the seat in the back has two drawbacks - the bloody seatbelts aren't long enough :mad: and I believe not having the child in view will be more distracting than having it a glance away.
QUOTE]

Strictly speaking it is recommended that a child seat should be fitted behind the driver's seat if possible for safety purposes and not diagonally across. The reasoning behind it is that in an emergency situation the driver has a natural innate tendency to preserve their own life and will therefore attempt to avoid an impact on the drivers side.

Would it be possible to replace the seatbelts with longer ones or buy a new child seat that fits. Shops will allow you to try before buying and it should be cheaper that any garage work.:)

jayok

The alternative of fitting the seat in the back has two drawbacks - the bloody seatbelts aren't long enough and I believe not having the child in view will be more distracting than having it a glance away.

Well I always thought they would be of a relatively standard length! Obviously not.

Anyhow, I too had the same problem with putting the child seat in the rear - we couldn't keep an eye on the young lad. So I bought a camera that is great to monitor him. This device is excellent as the seat is rear facing and behind the driver. Details can be found here:

http://www.iviewcameras.co.uk/BACKSEATCCTVSystemsdeals.htm

I have to say it was really easy to fit, (took 15 minutes to fit to the CR-V) and it works very well, even at night as it has IR emitters. Well worth the €140. Best thing is when he gets bigger it can be moved used to monitor the back seat from directly behind the driver.

As for the airbags thing, I think the possibility of the "airbag" going off even when de-activated is a libel covering statement. However, I always imagined that the rear of the car would be the "safest" place in the car. On another point does the Skoda have side airbags?

fletch

jayok wrote:

http://www.iviewcameras.co.uk/BACKSEATCCTVSystemsdeals.htm

How did you do this mouseover effect?

Litcagral

jayok wrote:

Well I always thought they would be of a relatively standard length! Obviously not.
QUOTE]



I have loads of extra belt length in my car but recently I had to put the child seat into my Mother-in-law's car (99 Corolla) and it was very tight. Also very tight in Ford Escorts.

ds20prefecture

Thanks for all the replies. That's more or less made my mind up. Bizarrely, I can just fit the seat behind the driver with the existing belt. Not a chance behind the passenger. I might fit a longer one anyway.

The camera is very cool, and might be handy after it's not longer needed for the child. Is the screen slim enough to clip onto the sun visor? Certainly a cheaper option than disabling/re-enabling the airbag, as colm says. A mirror on the rear headrest might work here too, but is likely to be obscured.

jayok wrote:

On another point does the Skoda have side airbags?

Not this 2000 model. I believe the later ones of the Mk1 did, and the new one has a gazillion. What's the concensus - are they a good or bad thing for infants?

TempestSabre

ds20prefecture wrote:

....
The alternative of fitting the seat in the back has two drawbacks - the bloody seatbelts aren't long enough :mad: and I believe not having the child in view will be more distracting than having it a glance away.
Any advice welcome.

I'm a bit puzzled by all this. Why would you buy a car seat that doesn't fit in your car? Did you not try it before you bought it. Most places that sell baby seats allow you to try them out. Can you not return it and get one that fits?

Having the child in the back, passenger side allows you to see them in the rear view mirror. So you don't even have to move you head, and looking in the mirror is a normal driving action. I don't see how the child is in view at 90 degrees from the straight ahead. Do you drive looking left? Really most of the time driving you don't look at the child. Its a really bad habit to get into constantly looking at the child. If they are crying at least you know they are ok. Usually they are just complaining about something. You'll know when its a cry of distress. In which case you'll have to pull over and take care of the problem. If the child is beside you the temptation to reach over, without pulling in will be impossible to resist. If you are doing something that everyone else isn't doing, usually thats a sign that you should reconsider why everyone else is doing it differently.

I remember once putting the baby in the front seat by accident. (we've no passenger airbag) Well it was through extreme fatigue, any parent knows you do crazy stuff when that tired. Anyway it was really off putting, and I think the baby was a little freaked by it aswell. Personally I think its less distracting having the baby in the back. I don't see why its better to put the child behind the driver either. It makes it hard to reach the child when stopped, and you need a camera to see them. All of this is solved by putting them behind the passenger.

I'd be wondering why one belt is longer than the other. However Tthats a problem that should be easily fixed. Swap the belts.

ds20prefecture

TempestSabre wrote:

I'm a bit puzzled by all this. Why would you buy a car seat that doesn't fit in your car? Did you not try it before you bought it. Most places that sell baby seats allow you to try them out. Can you not return it and get one that fits?

I did get it fitted. It fit in the front, which (until now) I believed was the best place for the child. It also fit (but only just) behind the driver. The sales assistant assured us that this was pretty much the smallest infant child seat and that we'd need to get new belts fitted in the rear. It obviously won't be an issue with forward facing child seats.
Lastly, it is the only infant child seat that does that clever click thingy with the unbelievably complex buggy/travel system/origami tubular chassis (which we already had).

If you are doing something that everyone else isn't doing, usually thats a sign that you should reconsider why everyone else is doing it differently

That's the thing, a lot of people I know put the child in the front.

Do you drive looking left?

I drive looking straight, left, right and in the rear view mirror.

Thanks for the reply.

TempestSabre

LOL, I think you are already decided. Despite whatever advice. I forgot the golden rule, never give other parents advice.

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/refcap/396.html
http://www.nsc.org/traf/sbc/sbcchild.htm#F
http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/types/index.htm
http://www.aap.org/family/carseatguide.htm
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/programs/kiss.html
http://www.austell.org/fire/childsafety.htm

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choosing/common_problems.htm#seatbelt

Most info recommends the rear seat, though doesn't give reasons why its better than the front. Personally I would assume that its because your closer to the accident, and if the engine or dash comes back, (as they often to do) the front passenger/driver usually suffer badly. Same with debris, in the back you've some form of protection by the seats in front. One link suggested behind the driver was the safest, but again with nothing to back that up. However thats in a crash. It wasn't taking about driving safely or the practicalities of being able to monitor or reach the child when stopped and safe to do so.

Personally I put ours in the back, and passenger side. Because then they're not kicking the back of my seat

ciarsd

DS, the lads/ladies over on http://www.briskoda.net/ should be able to help you out. I know a couple of the irish lads hang about in the irish region forum.

Fabritzo

I would have assumed there was a keyhole around the door that you put the ignition key in and that turns the airbag off?

ds20prefecture

Fabritzo wrote:

I would have assumed there was a keyhole around the door that you put the ignition key in and that turns the airbag off?

This is only in proper cars like Alfa 156s and Fiats. My 156 had this feature - yet another thing to miss....

TempestSabre wrote:

I forgot the golden rule, never give other parents advice.

I'm not a parent yet, so all advice is welcome! Thanks again.

@ciarsd - briskoda was the first place I went. Great site, but its sometimes annoying to see how little the UK guys have to pay for service and the cars themselves. e.g. disconnect airbag in the UK cost £50 from a dealer. It will cost €180 here (and that's in a cheap dealer)

PaddyFagan

ds20prefecture wrote:

This is only in proper cars like Alfa 156s and Fiats. My 156 had this feature - yet another thing to miss....

I'm not a parent yet, so all advice is welcome! Thanks again.

The later MkI Octavia's have a key slot in the glove box - I know all the Tour versions (which went on sale in 04 have them). No use to you I know....

My wife's Mini One also has a passager airbag with no switch to disable it. The BMW refused to disable the airbag on the grounds that they had advice from BMW HQ that it wasn't recommended....

Paddy

jayok

How did you do this mouseover effect?

Errr... nothing special, just added the URL code wrapper. I notice though the roll-over only occurs with Firefox!

Anyway back to hand:

The reason we put the child seat behind the driver is that it is simply more convienent to load everything in from one side of the car. As such when I approach the car I can load the child seat and myself in without running around in circles. It's a small thing I know but it's simply convienence.

On the CR-V there's front and side passenger airbags with no option to disable them. This is by design apparently as Honda could not guarantee 100% that the airbags would NOT go off in a crash. This kinda makes sense as basically the airbag is a class 1 explosive that I sure could ignite accidently (whatever the remote odds are). As such there was no real decision about whether front or back. But, personally I have to say I just prefer having the child in the back for two reasons:

1. Safety - the back of the car is the middle of the car (in the case of the CR-V), it simply gives more distance between the frontal collision and any debris that could fly.
2. Peace - After about 10-15 mins of driving he normally drifts off to sleep if he's on his own in the back whereas if there's someone with him he'll stay awake looking for attention.

As for the camera, we find it very useful, and yes when he's older and front facing we can still use it to montior the back seats. As for the size of the 2" screen, it's of adequate size that would fit to a sunshade. However, I managed to mount it on empty dash space to the left of the dash-dials that was you can simply check the LCD as you would your speed. The key thing with the system compared to mirrors is that it works at night.

If you need to see more, I can upload photos.

Anan1

I think the Octavia may have ISOFIX child seat mountings, meaning you don't have to use the rear seat belts at all.

A.

ciarsd

PaddyFagan wrote:

My wife's Mini One also has a passager airbag with no switch to disable it. The BMW refused to disable the airbag on the grounds that they had advice from BMW HQ that it wasn't recommended....

Paddy

My sister in law had it disabled by BMW just before the baby arrived. They also fitted a larger seatbelt (and also mentioned it was stronger/more durable - however I'm unsure about this part myself). I wonder if it is car dependent and/or dealer dependent...

PaddyFagan

ciarsd wrote:

My sister in law had it disabled by BMW just before the baby arrived. They also fitted a larger seatbelt (and also mentioned it was stronger/more durable - however I'm unsure about this part myself). I wonder if it is car dependent and/or dealer dependent...

Interesting - I guess it must be down to the garage.

On a more practical note, for the orginal poster - because of this we had the baby seat in the front in my car (Octavia with the switch) and it the back in the Mini. Overall, I think I prefered having it in the back - it does feel safer, if the baby gets up-set you'll have to stop to sort things out and with them in the back there is no temptation to drive one handed and try and tend to the baby as well. The other thing we found was that when the three of us went out together, if the baby was in the front, the backseat passager felt a bit out of things. Whereas with the baby in the back (generally asleep), we could chat and stuff......

Paddy

ds20prefecture

Thanks Paddy. My mind's made up - the kid goes in the back and I won't go near the airbag. I'll look into new belts.

PaddyFagan

ds20prefecture wrote:

Thanks Paddy. My mind's made up - the kid goes in the back and I won't go near the airbag. I'll look into new belts.

No problem - I've had no problems with the belt lengths, but it's an 05 vRS, so the seat set up it different anyway. You'd hope the garage could sort out longer belts easily enough.....

Paddy

Jip

Anan1 wrote:

I think the Octavia may have ISOFIX child seat mountings, meaning you don't have to use the rear seat belts at all.

That's what I was just about to post. I was only flicking through the owners manual the other day and came across this. Do you have the manual DS ?

unkel

First of all, congratulations, DS

For reasons already mentioned by others, we always have the baby in the back. We use a simple mirror (couple of €) that:

1. For a rear facing baby seat, uses a suction pad to stick to the rear window, positioned so that the driver uses the rear view to check the baby via the stick on mirror

2. For a fron facing baby seat, clips onto the rear view mirror, postitioned so that the driver can see the baby directly via the clip on mirror

BTW, the rear passenger seatbelt in my previous car, an E34 BMW 530i, was not long enough to fit around the car seat that fits with the travel system I intended to buy. Was about to change the car anyway, so it wasn't an issue

ciarsd wrote:

They also fitted a larger seatbelt (and also mentioned it was stronger/more durable - however I'm unsure about this part myself)

I agree with your skepticism. No need to be stronger / more durable. If it can hold back a 100kg back seat passenger, surely it's strong enough for a baby + car seat

ds20prefecture

Jip wrote:

That's what I was just about to post. I was only flicking through the owners manual the other day and came across this. Do you have the manual DS ?

It must be post 01 facelift. The isofix system is two slots visible on the seats, AFAIK. The '00 doesn't have them, or anything unusual under the seats. The DS definitely doesn't have ISOFIX (even Citroën weren't that advanced in '72).

The car seat doesn't have ISOFIX anyway, so I'm sticking with the belts.

ds20prefecture

unkel wrote:

First of all, congratulations, DS

Thanks, but not yet!

TempestSabre

jayok wrote:

....The reason we put the child seat behind the driver is that it is simply more convienent to load everything in from one side of the car. As such when I approach the car I can load the child seat and myself in without running around in circles. It's a small thing I know but it's simply convienence.....

Usually that will be the side facing into the road. I find loading the other side safer. Unless of course you park in the opposite direction to traffic, and that would be a pain.