'The Dubs'

Culchie

Not a bad program, although these programs are far better when it is 'off the cuff' stuff, done by an amateur cameraman.

Alot of the stuff last night, whilst not stage managed, the players and mentors were inhibited by RTE presence, so it lost some of the 'edge' that would normally have been there.

Still it showed that the boys in blue are pulling together under Caffrey anyway.


Wasn't Mulligans goal something else?

thewools

Culchie wrote:

Wasn't Mulligans goal something else?

Just love mulligans goal, i reckon casey still have nightmares over that 'dummy' - PURE CLASS!!!!!

Oh and the show wasin too bad either

chubba1984

I thought the show was very good last night. Thought they could have done it over 2 hours rather than 1 because everything seemed a bit rushed.

Caffrey has a style of management that wouldn't be shown too often. Very clear headed and calculated approach and not too much into puttin fists through walls and breaking tables.

I would have loved to have seen one of these on Tyrone though, to be honest.

kc66

chubba1984 wrote:

Thought they could have done it over 2 hours rather than 1 because everything seemed a bit rushed.

A two hour show about the dubs? Sure why not put it in the cinemas as well?

blackbelt

It did seem a bit rushed in my opinion.

They never really highlighted the national league or put too much emphasis on players thoughts about each match and the fans opinions.

I never knew they did some training in St Davids school.All i have to do is look out the window and see the school

FlutterinBantam

Are we talkin about the fly on the wall docu last night....?

Pilar made a show of himself.... foul language... gratuitous use of the "F" word... didn't do anything at all to further the cause of the GAA...

I'd say Sean Kelly is not too pleased at the display of ... well.. downright low class behaviour which will be copied, no doubt, by the younger viewers.

Not a good advert for the Gaa.... Caffrey let himself down ...bigtime

Lemlin

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Are we talkin about the fly on the wall docu last night....?

Pilar made a show of himself.... foul language... gratuitous use of the "F" word... didn't do anything at all to further the cause of the GAA...

I'd say Sean Kelly is not too pleased at the display of ... well.. downright low class behaviour which will be copied, no doubt, by the younger viewers.

Not a good advert for the Gaa.... Caffrey let himself down ...bigtime

Have you ever played GAA? I used to hear worse than that at Under 12 training.

The Rooster

I didnt know that the oul wans who call Liveline knew how to use that interweb yoke

Kojak

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Pilar made a show of himself.... foul language... gratuitous use of the "F" word... didn't do anything at all to further the cause of the GAA...

Give over, will you. :mad: :mad:

Obviously you have never played any GAA sports, or sports in general.

If you were offended by that then if you are ever offered a copy of the Westmeath version from 2004 keep well away from it - that had a lot more swearing.

Oh yes, it wasn't 6 years olds Caffrey was talking to - it was grown men. If anyone thinks that they shouldn't be swearing is living in 'cuckoo-land'. :mad: :mad:

chubba1984

I thought Caffrey was ****in brilliant;)

FlutterinBantam

Kojak wrote:

Give over, will you. :mad: :mad:

Obviously you have never played any GAA sports, or sports in general.

If you were offended by that then if you are ever offered a copy of the Westmeath version from 2004 keep well away from it - that had a lot more swearing.

Oh yes, it wasn't 6 years olds Caffrey was talking to - it was grown men. If anyone thinks that they shouldn't be swearing is living in 'cuckoo-land'. :mad: :mad:

In answer to the first question yes I have...Football..Hurling..Golf..Squash...basketball plus more

Strictly speaking I wasn't offended by it..just bored by the CONSTANT GRATUITOUS use of the "F" word.Showed the lack of respect for himself, and the players Caffrey had, if he thought he had to eff his way thru everything.

I never said there shouldnt be swearing.. The sad part of it however is that some neantherdals out there think that this is "Normal"... to pepper every second utterance with a profanity ..to gain some kind of stupid street cred..

Bet a fair few Euro Sean Kelly didn't welcome it with open arms... Its 2006 for Chrissakes!!!!!:p ...We threw off the animal skins years ago... didn't we?:eek:

*marie*

The Rooster wrote:

I didnt know that the oul wans who call Liveline knew how to use that interweb yoke

LOL

Lemlin

FlutterinBantam wrote:

In answer to the first question yes I have...Football..Hurling..Golf..Squash...basketball plus more

Strictly speaking I wasn't offended by it..just bored by the CONSTANT GRATUITOUS use of the "F" word.Showed the lack of respect for himself, and the players Caffrey had, if he thought he had to eff his way thru everything.

I never said there shouldnt be swearing.. The sad part of it however is that some neantherdals out there think that this is "Normal"... to pepper every second utterance with a profanity ..to gain some kind of stupid street cred..

Bet a fair few Euro Sean Kelly didn't welcome it with open arms... Its 2006 for Chrissakes!!!!!:p ...We threw off the animal skins years ago... didn't we?:eek:

I'm sure Sean Kelly did welcome it with open arms. Why? Because it was another documentary, like Marooned and the Galway one, which showed the dedication of hard-working GAA players.

blackbelt

Just to further the argument...

Caffrey takes his job as Dublin manager very seriously.If you are a Dublin supporter or were watching the All Ireland,you'd know how close the Dublin matches were.Caffrey has every right to swear and say f*ck all he likes because it comes witht the territory of his job.There was a lot of expectation Caffrey and Dublin had to live up to in 2005.That expectation is going to increase in 2006.So I'm not offended by him cursing,it simply motivates players and puts the exclamation point on things.

And as for the kids....kids will hear this in the schoolyard,on the streets,at home,on television so this argument has no substance that Caffrey should not curse.Wouldn't you curse if your players were making stupid mistakes at a crucial stage in the championship?Im certain that most managers say f*ck and whatever...although I can't imagine Tommy Carr losing the head and cursing

FlutterinBantam

Ah well Tommy had a bit of class and respect for himself

madmorphy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Ah well Tommy had a bit of class and respect for himself

So what,if you read between the lines in the programme the only man who had anything good to say about him was the kit man,he was all mouth and no action.
Anyone who attended dublin's league matches last year,saw the change in attitude of the players as soon as he was gone.Lads refused to give up and we won many a tight game we previously would have lost,if that require's a few choice words,so be it.I don't see u complaining about talty,clarke,whelo, shocko,casey etc.

megadodge

It's Tommy Carr that was mentioned not Tommy Lyons.
Carr was well able to eff and blind as displayed in Thurles 2001.

FlutterinBantam

megadodge wrote:

It's Tommy Carr that was mentioned not Tommy Lyons.
Carr was well able to eff and blind as displayed in Thurles 2001.

it seems the most valuable qual to manage a GAA team is to be able to
curse like a trooper and have a haircut from hell

madmorphy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

it seems the most valuable qual to manage a GAA team is to be able to
curse like a trooper and have a haircut from hell

And your point is ?

redspider

It was a good insight. Some of you may remember the similar done a few years ago for Galway's 1998 winning year, a similar eye-on-the-wall documentary.

I did notice a big contrast though. John "whatever-his-name", the Galway Manager, was much more of a motivator than Caffrey. Also, the Dublin staff were using business-like management techniques, with flip-charts, meetings, etc, and over-analysis, which I dont think worked. Sports Psychology is important, but yellow post-its, etc, are dubious. I really emphathised with Galway's insight in 1998 as it showed what team spirit could do. Whereas the Dublin insight this year showed that their team spirit was lacking as in not 100%. Wasnt there a Tyrone programme a few years ago?

Shane Ryan came in for a lot of slagging from the manager, perhaps rightly.
To me though, it seems there is too much pressure on the players in Dublin with too much expectation which doesnt allow them to play for each other as a team. They feel "dropped" when they are not on the starting 15, rather than feeling "in" as part of the panel of 30, which is needed in the modern intensity of the game. Its no longer 15 lads getting their sunday shirts off to play in the field behind the church after mass.

Also, the players were crying when they got knocked out, which for me is the wrong emotion. They should be angry, pissed off, kicking in the doors and banging on the walls, not effing crying, and effing everyone out of it if they need to. But not crying. What type of mental state were they in.

More of these from RTE please ..... and I agree with the point made that the camera's should not be intrusive, maybe get those secret ones that can film from a kit bag, etc. And yup, 1 hr is too short to condense one season.

redspider

The Rooster

Finally got to see the programme. I thought it was great, as probably most Dubs fans would, except that it was far too short! Not sure whether an opposing supporter would have enjoyed it, it seems some found it interesting anyway.

Caffrey looks a good organisor and was well able to motivate them. But the real mark of how good a motivator someone is, is whether they can motivate them in year 2 (just repeating what was said last year usually doesnt work). But I like his style. Doesnt scream much, but when he does you know he means it.

The only thing I didnt agree with was when he said "I'm not changing the team, its a vote of confidence in the lads that started last time". Thats balderdash. Just because a team wins, doesnt mean it was the right team that was picked or that they all played well and deserve to be retained. Its only a vote of confidence for the selectors themselves, i.e. "we got it right". One of the most important attributes of a good manager is acknowleging when you make an incorrect decision, and correcting quickly. In fairness there were team changes made in the subsequent games.

It was a reminder of all the hard work the players put in to represent their county (as in every county I'm sure). Feel sorry for the lads who put in the same effort but never see any on-pitch action.

Also reminded me how close each of Meath, Wexford and Laois came to us. Feck all between the teams on the day. But also how close we were to Tyrone - so many breaks went against us over the two games, e.g.:

- Mulligan's goal when he fouled the ball twice could have been blown up
- Homan's injury when he would have started the replay, not to mention the effect it had on Whelan and other team members - Whelan was clearly devastated
- The Tyrone penalty was clearly not only outside the area, but the best tackle I've ever seen made by a Dub
- Brogan's injury in the first half when he'd been tormenting the Tyrone defence.

I'm not moaning about any of these, we got a couple of breaks ourselves:

- Quinn's goal coming 30 seconds after the designated added time at the end of the first half in the first game (ref's are allowed add on more time if there's been more stoppages, but most refs don't seem to bother)
- the last gasp free to get the draw was not a foul on Cullen

Tyrone got more of the breaks over the 2 games, but thats football . The Dubs probably got more breaks against Meath, Wexford and particularly Laois, whereas Tyrone seemed to get no breaks at all in their Ulster championship games v Armagh. You've got to take advantage of the breaks when you get them, and deal with them when they go the other way. The point I'm making is that it leaves Dublin's fans hopeful of making a good go of it this year, while still wary that things could go pear-shaped in Leinster.

*marie*

redspider wrote:

...Also, the players were crying when they got knocked out, which for me is the wrong emotion. They should be angry, pissed off, kicking in the doors and banging on the walls, not effing crying, and effing everyone out of it if they need to. But not crying. What type of mental state were they in...
redspider

Why not crying? Because it's not 'manly' enough? It just shows how much the game meant to them imo. In my experience, it would take something bad to make me throw a tantrum and kick in doors, but it would take something worse to make me cry. And losing a match that you've been training for all year definitely counts as the latter for me anyway!

blackbelt

Kicking in doors and having tantrums is not the way to get over a loss that was gut wrenching.

Caffrey appeared to be a level headed man even with all the cursing.He did leave out Sherlock for the starting 15 against Wexford but thats football.

I think what Dublin need to do,as pointed out,is to take better advantage of the decisions that go their way.Dublin should have buried Tyrone in the first match with all the frees they got but squandered nearly all of them in the second have.Wasn't Cullens jersey being pulled on?...then the ref gave an extra 10 yards for the player arguing with him?

I saw a big improvement to Dublins style of play in the Laois match.It was a bit worrying when we were losing to Wexford for half the match and began to question Dublins chances of gaining Leinster.

I like Caffrey.He is a good motivator and contrary to what some people think,I think his clipboard or chart is a good strategy of showing what needs to be done.Its like a manager performing a SWOT analysis.

Lemlin

Lads,

What's done is done. Every team has a hell of a lot of "what ifs" and "should ofs" from any season. Its 2006 and time to look forward to a new league and Championship.

redspider

*marie* wrote:

Why not crying? Because it's not 'manly' enough? It just shows how much the game meant to them imo.

Men and women cry at different times. Men when all hope is lost, or after a great achievement that was done under a lot of stress. Women, well, lets just say more than that.

You may see Men crying at Funerals, or indeed sporting occasions, such as at times of joy. Yer man, I keep forgetting GAA names at the moment, the manager of Tyrone, was in tears after Tyrone won Sam, as are many fans when they win Sam. Its a huge achievment. But if you lose, the emotion should not be crying imo, but angry determination to do better next season. If you are trying to win Sam, you will take defeat as a learning step in that process, hurtful as it is. If you cry, you have been driven to desperate levels.


Rooster, I agree with your points.

redspider

StupidLikeAFox

redspider wrote:

And yup, 1 hr is too short to condense one season

Not if your from kildare

FlutterinBantam

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlutterinBantam
it seems the most valuable qual to manage a GAA team is to be able to
curse like a trooper and have a haircut from hell

madmorphy wrote:

And your point is ?

Sorry didn't realise you had reading diffs..... exactly as it says on the tin sunshine

puppyhead

why is peader andrews still on the team.
he prob is a nice guy and stuff but he cant kick the ball, he only hand passes. why do dublin management want to keep him. is it coz he so nice they cant break his heart.