RTÉ Television on the Radio

Propellerhead

From the early to the mid 1970s I recall that RTÉ (Television) sound was relayed on (approximately) 100Mhz on what was then called VHF.

I presume that this was from Kippure - but can anyone shed any light on this? By the time we got a radio with FM in late 1978 I think this was discontinued.

watty

Maybe it was a fault in a radio. The BandI TV sound or BandII TV sound can be picked up on a scanner. AFASIK all BandI is gone. But a radio might easily pickup the band I near a transmitter as the 2nd harmonic or by some other mechanism.

You also can pickup harmonics of the TV sound or video IF from older TVs on FM radio if close to the TV. One method used by old UK TV detector vans. The sound quality wasn't much but it did work. Less likely with modern TVs.

Ulsterman 1690

I remember someone in Dublin telling me that years ago RTE did have some kind of relay of TV audio in the 87.6-107.9 band for some kind of internal link within the studio complex except that the thing was a little over powered (250watts was mentioned :eek: )

But its not unusual for faulty radios to pick up Band 3 TV signals

segadreamcast

It's funny because, just today, on radiowaves.fm's forums ('getting technical', I think it was), somebody just reported picking up 'crystal clear' TV signals on their radio... maybe check that post out?

http://www.radiowavesforum.com/rw/showthread.php?p=80330#post80330

DMC

Not related, but I remember that the 1988 Eurovision from the RDS was relayed in glorious stereo on what was then called FM3.

Ulsterman 1690

Before the adoption of NICAM "Simulcasting" was pretty common practice in several European countries as it enabled people to listen in stereo at a time when TV audio was limited to mono.

BBC Radio 2 used to carry it as well (dunno if they still do)

Emerson

Of course, the rest of Europe didn't adopt Nicam but an inferior FM stereo pilot like system irc..

Nicam was pretty advanced when it was developed. A digital subcarier back in the day was pretty damn impressive!

If only FM Radio applied the same codec, there'd be no more hissy stereo on the radio

watty

Actually only FM radio uses pilot tone and DSBSC L-R subcarrier.

Continental audio "Zwei sound" is actually two separate FM carriers. It works well. Much better than FM Radio. Video senders / digisenders ALL use this system except they are two subcarriers on the single FM 2.4GHz carrier that carries the video.

Nicam would not work at all on the the kind of signal level a lot of people have on VHF bandII FM radio. It is unsuitable. It also takes too muuch spectrum, DRM+ may be more suitable. DAB can be fine if there are not too many stations squeezed in.

DMC

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Before the adoption of NICAM "Simulcasting" was pretty common practice in several European countries as it enabled people to listen in stereo at a time when TV audio was limited to mono.

BBC Radio 2 used to carry it as well (dunno if they still do)

Slight difference here.

Yes, BBC Radio 2 still cover the ESC live, but with Ken Bruce's radio commentary, rather than BBC tv's Wogan-fest. Up until a few years ago, RTÉ also did radio commentary, with Larry Gogan.

But the difference in 1988 was that it was TV commentary on FM3, while Larry Gogan was on RTÉ Radio 1 doing the standard radio commentary. IIRC, it was Marty Whelan's last commentary for RTÉ, before he went into solitary confinement.

medja

Around that time (1988/9) Several film soundtracks were carried on FM3, So you could watch a RTE 1 Movie in stereo. This was before FM3 started evening Broadcasts and RnaG went off air at 7.30 pm, My dates may not be correct but I even think there were notices for the service in the RTE Guide.

At the time as far as I remember FM 3 had a classical/highbrow service from 2.00 -4.30pm funded in part by the Bank of Ireland.

This service was squezzed to 1.30 -3.00 when Rna G extented it's broadcast hours, eventually Daytime broadcasts stopped For FM 3 When RnaG went all day. (with the exception of Christmas day)

I think I Better stop now...:o

Richard

medja wrote:

This service was squezzed to 1.30 -3.00 when Rna G extented it's broadcast hours, eventually Daytime broadcasts stopped For FM 3 When RnaG went all day. (with the exception of Christmas day)

What's a squezz?:D

Interestingly (possibly!) the Radio Times still lists the frequency for "FM3/RNAG"

Richard

Somehow, I managed to pick up several TV channels on FM when in Central Scotland in 1993.

testicle

You used to be able to pick up the sound from Network 2 on 59.75MHz.

Ulsterman 1690

watty wrote:

Actually only FM radio uses pilot tone and DSBSC L-R subcarrier.

IIRC In some NTSC countries TV stations use a variation of the pilot tone system except the pilot tone is phase locked to the video line frequency to reduce interference to the difference signal caused by harmonics of the line frequency (or something like that )

The BBC (or maybe the IBA ) tried out a PAL version of this system and decided it wasnt good enough (I suspect they had a point)

cil_aine

when i was in wicklow in the sumemrt i could get RTE 1 on my little travel radio.
dont ask me how.

testicle

testicle wrote:

You used to be able to pick up the sound from Network 2 on 59.75MHz.

Where abouts? 59.75MHz is the audio carrier for channel B (VHF Band I).

JohnC.

I remember in the 80s, my grandparents had a radio which picked up RTÉ. Can't remember what frequency or bands or whatever. But I think it was a radio capable of picking up more than the average radio anyway. Nothing like a scanner, just a radio with a bit extra.

byrnefm

On a radio my grandma gave me back in 1990 or so, an American FM/AM radio with the standard ranges, I was able to pick up RTÉ 1 perfectly clear on the very edge of the FM band - ie. approx 108FM, in Kilcar, Co Donegal. I couldn't tune it in on any other radio in the house so I guess it must have been just past 108.0. I used to listen to it for the weather forecast from RTÉ TV whenever we'd have a black out due to storms in the winter time :rolleyes: I still have that radio - must try it out again next time I'm up there.

L1011

byrnefm wrote:

On a radio my grandma gave me back in 1990 or so, an American FM/AM radio with the standard ranges, I was able to pick up RTÉ 1 perfectly clear on the very edge of the FM band - ie. approx 108FM, in Kilcar, Co Donegal. I couldn't tune it in on any other radio in the house so I guess it must have been just past 108.0. I used to listen to it for the weather forecast from RTÉ TV whenever we'd have a black out due to storms in the winter time :rolleyes: I still have that radio - must try it out again next time I'm up there.

...which is strange as none of the Irish channels have sound carriers on Band II.

181.25 is the lowest Band III (Channel D) carrier and 67.5 the highest Band I (Channel C).

Harmonics, radio that was actually a scanner, local relay for some reason, who knows...

Ulsterman 1690

There used to be cheap radios on the market (mainly intended for the US market) which covered 26-28 (CB) 54-108 ("TV and FM") and 108-174 MHz("Airband" "Weather Band*" and "Police Band**")

These would pick up the RTE 1 (not RTE 2) Band 1 (Ch transmissions from Maghera a lot had such poor RF design that Strong Band 3 signals could breakthrough as well (possibly explains how some people could get RTE2 although cable leakage could also be a source)

* Around 162.5 MHz Only used in North America
** Or sometimes less blatently titled "Public service band" although I understand evesdroping on police frequencies is not illegal in the USA

Paulobrien

Hi,

Have not read all the posts, but a few points of interest.

It was poss to pick up RTE TV on 100m but speaking to a few teck heads at the time, it was some widespread ossilator issue and not an actual broadcast.

RTE under EU Law did not (in the early 80's) have legal use of anything above 100fm (hence the jamming of NOVA and Sunshine was extra illegal by them (bastards)

Anyone recall the time way way back in the early 80's when Radio 1 was broadcast on TV for an experiment for a month or two ..it was Pat Kenny etc and just the equivelant of a webcam in a fixed position (pre internet obviously)

Paul

zilog_jones

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

There used to be cheap radios on the market (mainly intended for the US market) which covered 26-28 (CB) 54-108 ("TV and FM") and 108-174 MHz("Airband" "Weather Band*" and "Police Band**")

I've seen portable radios sold here with "TV" and "weather" bands, and I've seen Sony Walkmans with them too (though they may have been from the US).

The Japanese FM radio band is 76–90MHz, so some import cars may still receive these frequencies (they often have adaptors though) but that's not near Band I or III either.