UTV on SKy

St Senan

I just seen a poster in a place that sell Sky, it is a big blue original poster
with UTV available on Sky in the Republic of Ireland on it.

watty

Well, it is. Just not on the EPG. But reception is just as good as in Birmingham or Belfast, otherwise.

St Senan

scaller wrote:

I just seen a poster in a place that sell Sky, it is a big blue original poster
with UTV available on Sky in the Republic of Ireland on it.

We all know its available fta but surely this is wrong to advertise something that's not on their EPG.

Zhane

scaller wrote:

We all know its available fta but surely this is wrong to advertise something that's not on their EPG.

i dont think theres a law against something, but if they really wanted to nick NTL and Chorus's customers, adding it to the EPG would sinch the deal me thinks.

watty

scaller wrote:

We all know its available fta but surely this is wrong to advertise something that's not on their EPG.

Possibly not. I suspect a Digbox without "other channels" would be illegal. If "Other Channels" makes the Digibox legal, then advertising channels only available on that is not wrong.

However it is certinally "bending" something!

I don't think you are allowed to sell a "totally closed" receiver in EU.

L1011

watty wrote:

I don't think you are allowed to sell a "totally closed" receiver in EU.

I think its more a condition of putting the DVB logo on the front than an EU rule.

byte

I'm not sure if that poster, or indeed the leaflets instore telling you how to tune in UTV are from Sky themselves.

Rippy

byte wrote:

I'm not sure if that poster, or indeed the leaflets instore telling you how to tune in UTV are from Sky themselves.

I believe the poster and leaflets are distributed by Electroplus, the main Sky wholesaler in Ireland.
I don't see anything wrong in telling people what they can receive if it helps sales.
No one is being decieved.

andrew3

The only pain in the neck is- is that the box their issuing "forgets" manaully tuned stations! -- The new pace box looses all the manually tuned channels everytime they're entered! what a pain! the panasonic and sony box even sky plus is holdin them ok! -- I know its the software in the new pace because my friend has the same model and its doing the exact same thing!

JohnC.

I've not seen any Sky leaflets telling how to tune it in. But I have seen ones saying it is now available as an FTA channel, but you need to tune it in yourself through Other Channels and the channel is not part of a Sky package and not supported by Sky. Seems reasonable enough to me.

I mean, complaining about informing people that a very popular channel is now available through the platform! Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

byte

Rippy wrote:

I believe the poster and leaflets are distributed by Electroplus, the main Sky wholesaler in Ireland.
I don't see anything wrong in telling people what they can receive if it helps sales.
No one is being decieved.

Yes, you're quite right.

watty

andrew3 wrote:

The only pain in the neck is- is that the box their issuing "forgets" manaully tuned stations! -- The new pace box looses all the manually tuned channels everytime they're entered! what a pain! the panasonic and sony box even sky plus is holdin them ok! -- I know its the software in the new pace because my friend has the same model and its doing the exact same thing!

The Skyboxes have always "forgotten" Other Channels, Some reasons:
1) Some SW updates.
2) Too many (the number seems variable but less than 10 is OK, more than 25 is bad)
3) Certain personal planner events.

My Sept 2000 Digibox had those problems.

iano

byte wrote:

Yes, you're quite right.

I would agree IF they also pointed out that ITV/ITV2/BBC3/BBC4 and any other channel not on the EPG are not fully functional in that:

- No Program can be recorded on SKY+
- Instant rewind does not work
- Digital Text does not work
- Interactive features (red button) do not work
- Digital Subtitles do not work
- There is no Program Guide, only "Now & Next"

I reckon that it is sharp practice to suggest that these channels are available without pointing out the restricted functionality.

Mossy Monk

iano wrote:

I would agree IF they also pointed out that ITV/ITV2/BBC3/BBC4 and any other channel not on the EPG are not fully functional in that:

- Digital Subtitles do not work

yes they do. just tried it now with Sky One in Other Channels. subtitles work fine

andrew3

watty wrote:

The Skyboxes have always "forgotten" Other Channels, Some reasons:
1) Some SW updates.
2) Too many (the number seems variable but less than 10 is OK, more than 25 is bad)
3) Certain personal planner events.

My Sept 2000 Digibox had those problems.

In the 97/98 pace model -50 stations stored and held.
in the Panasonic 2000 model - 50 stations stored and held
in the sony vtu 750 -50 stations stored and held (including ones from other satellites -i like recording VOA Music mix on 13east through the digital output on my Mini Disc)
2nd generation sky plus - 50 stations stored and held

latest pace sky digibox - looses stations everynight ( with or without being left plugged in!)

watty

iano wrote:

I would agree IF they also pointed out that ITV/ITV2/BBC3/BBC4 and any other channel not on the EPG are not fully functional in that:

- No Program can be recorded on SKY+
- Instant rewind does not work
- Digital Text does not work
- Interactive features (red button) do not work
- Digital Subtitles do not work
- There is no Program Guide, only "Now & Next"

The Sky+ doesn't work with EPG channels either without a Sub. This is a evil deliberate flaw in Sky+, nothing to do with "Other Channels".
A FTA PVR will work with any FTA channel.

I wouldn't touch a Sky+ with barge pole till they make it that you are buying a PVR instead of renting it forever.

FTA receivers only have Now & Next fromSky. Full Epg from many Austrian/Swiss/German channels though.

"Digital" Text & Interactive is same thing, Doesn't work on FTA receivers. Teletext where transmitted (which is a wholly digital technology) works via Other Channels and on FTA receivers.

Subtitles do work. Both Page 888 type and true DVB subtitles. Most on UK channels seem to be the 888 variety.

S4C~Digidol english subtitles arn't automatic on my Digibox in EPG mode, but are on my FTA receiver.

Really nothing on the list is due to "other channels" as such but due to the proprietary non-compatible nature of the Sky Platform Guide and Sky implementation of "Open TV".

All these issues need addressed for BBC/ITV "platform" on non-Sky boxes in UK.

Other Sky box issues, all easily changed by automatic update:
- You can't see transponder settings for EPG channels or "Other Channels"
- You can't delete unwanted channels from EPG guide (Though they are expanding Favorites into a full custom Guide)
- No CAM for non Sky PVRs, PC Media centres etc.
- No diseqc switching (only software needed).
- Can't plug in a CAM for other providers (A CI may exist, or adaptor into module slot for CI is possible)
- No RS232 signalling in or out for external control or internal slection etc.

maisflocke

scaller wrote:

We all know its available fta but surely this is wrong to advertise something that's not on their EPG.

If they advertise that you can receive them on a Sky Digibox, then there is nothing actually wrong with their wording..... If however they were advertise that they are on the Sky programme guide that would be wrong.

Compare the advertisment with a Ryanair advert. Does a Ryanair flight to "Glasgow", "Frankfurt", or "Brussels" actually take you directly to these cities??

Watty wrote:

I suspect a Digbox without "other channels" would be illegal.

Absolutely correct, Watty. The first generation D-Box from DF1 / Premiere in Germany was declared illegal by the EC after it became known that the box was programmed only to receive the DF1/Premiere package.



.

Sponge Bob

maisflocke wrote:

If they advertise that you can receive them on a Sky Digibox, then there is nothing actually wrong with their wording..... If however they were advertise that they are on the Sky programme guide that would be wrong.

They should be configured in a standard install, as the installer does not configure them in a standard install they are not available unless you are technically minded IMO . Therefore its false advertising because of the degre of difficulty involved ....and the non SKY+ integration .

Compare the advertisment with a Ryanair advert. Does a Ryanair flight to "Glasgow", "Frankfurt", or "Brussels" actually take you directly to these cities??

I would say that Ryanair ensure thet there is a bus there to take you from the airport to the city, their latest ad (I knew it would happen !) is that they advertise Vienna against an airport in a different country

Other channels and non integration with SKY+ is a 'missing bus service' which puts SKY on the wrong side of "honest fair true " advertising IMO . At least Ryanair buses are 'outside the front door you can't miss them' kinda buses while the Other channels feature is a 'bus stop across a busy road in the dark' kind of bus stop.

maisflocke

Sponge Bob wrote:

I would say that Ryanair ensure thet there is a bus there to take you from the airport to the city.

Agreed, but Ryanair do not advertise that you have to pay a fee for the bus, (sometimes higher than the bargain fare you thought you got) making your single journey fare to the city you were "flying" to that bit higher.....
Admittedly the bus fee is "all included" and does not have the hidden "fees & taxes crap - well, not yet anyway.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Other channels and non integration with SKY+ is a 'missing bus service' which puts SKY on the wrong side of "honest fair true " advertising IMO . At least Ryanair buses are 'outside the front door you can't miss them' kinda buses while the Other channels feature is a 'bus stop across a busy road in the dark' kind of bus stop.

Disagree! Both Sky & Ryanair are cowboys. full stop.

iano

watty wrote:

The Sky+ doesn't work with EPG channels either without a Sub. This is a evil deliberate flaw in Sky+, nothing to do with "Other Channels". ...

The fact remains that somebody SELLING SKY INSTALLATIONS is taking a liberty if they claim to support ITV1/ITV2/BBC3/BBC4 etc. without also pointing out that these channels are crippled (do not have many of the normal features) using the DIGIBOXES and SKY+ that they supply.

I was not referring to reception on FTA receivers or PVRs.

JohnC.

They do not claim to support them. They say they are available on digital satellite (not specifically Sky). The latest leaflet I saw that said UTV is available pointed out that it needs tuning manually and is not provided by Sky and availability is outside of Skys control.

bg

andrew3 wrote:

The only pain in the neck is- is that the box their issuing "forgets" manaully tuned stations! -- The new pace box looses all the manually tuned channels everytime they're entered! what a pain! the panasonic and sony box even sky plus is holdin them ok! -- I know its the software in the new pace because my friend has the same model and its doing the exact same thing!

Hi
I just got sky installed today mines doing the exact same, very annoying. Is there a fix for this issue???
BG

dkane

nope not a thing you can do. The new pace boxes loose the other channels as soon as you use interactive or turn off your box if you have more than 3 other channels stored. Its a real pain in the a£$e!

bg

just tried it with only 3 channels stored. seems to hold them. Still a bummer though, hope there is a software upgrade or something for the new box