Archaeology = Grave robbing

lostexpectation

a very tabloid heading but I can't get this thought out of my head, whenever I see something about excavations,

I guess when most times you see excavations or skeletal removals is when something is about to built upon and the archaeologist are trying to their best "recorded destruction" as one called it. And it must be also true to say that you can't build or be anywhere where somebody hasn't been buried at some point...

This story in the news about a buriel site on the m7 http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0111/m7.html I think
Now it is good when a few isolated bodies are found under a site in town about to have building planted on it and are moved to consecrated ground for their protection but 500 bodies in one site, to me thats a graveyard! Nobody is suggesting we build a retail park on Glasnevin cemetary are they? (How recent does your death have to be that your graveyard doesn't get dug up)

It was interesting that it was priest interviewed saying he wanted the bodies to stay where they were rather than a history buff.

The most famous burials of all, the pyramids... Where is Tuta ka muhn's (sp?). Body right now. Is it in a museum or is it back where it was buried along with artefeacts important to their faith. Surely the pyramids and Kings/death valley region is protected enough now that the body can be where its supposed to be I hate to think my body being dug up and put in a museum rather then at the site that was supposed to bring me eternal afterlife.

Wibbs

lostexpectation wrote:

The most famous burials of all, the pyramids... Where is Tuta ka muhn's (sp?). Body right now. Is it in a museum or is it back where it was buried along with artefeacts important to their faith. Surely the pyramids and Kings/death valley region is protected enough now that the body can be where its supposed to be I hate to think my body being dug up and put in a museum rather then at the site that was supposed to bring me eternal afterlife.

Well Tutankhamun was buried in a tomb the valley of the kings, not a pyramid. Those things went up long before Tut was around. AFAIR Tutankhamun is back in his sarchophagus in his tomb. He has been taken out a few times for scientific study. His famous death mask and other artifacts are in the museum in Cairo.

I take your point though. When I see mummies or other ancient corpses in museums it does have an unsettling quality for me. There can also be a touch of the prurient voyeur vibe to it too.

boneless

The ethics of archaeology have come under the spotlight in recent times. I personally do not have a problem with the excavation of skeletal remains. In fact, in a lot of societies (and some modern European countries) remains were/are disinterred and removed to the likes of ossariums or are simply discarded.

As long as the remains are reinterred after examination there should be no problems with the majority of people.

I'd like to hear the opinions of others on this matter.

MicraBoy

Comparing this graveyard to Glasnevin isn't really fair. No one knew this even existed until they dug it up.

I personally don't see the problem with digging them up. May be that's because I don't really think you have a right to hold a piece of ground ad naseum after your dead. It's a bit like being held ransom to the past. The best approach is to learn what we can from sites like this and move on.

Skitbra

Nearly all archaeology done in Ireland is done in the path of a motorway that are being built. The archaeologists in this instance are preserving and recording the graves. The skeletons are removed and reburied most times.
I see what you mean but a lot of archaeology has nothing to do with skeletons or graves. Its quite boring, dealing with series of small walls.

boneless

Skitbra wrote:

Nearly all archaeology done in Ireland is done in the path of a motorway that are being built. The archaeologists in this instance are preserving and recording the graves. The skeletons are removed and reburied most times.
I see what you mean but a lot of archaeology has nothing to do with skeletons or graves. Its quite boring, dealing with series of small walls.

Walls are not boring!!!!:)

The old rule of thumb: find one stone you have a wall, find two a house... find three and you have a palace!!!

lostexpectation

MicraBoy wrote:

Comparing this graveyard to Glasnevin isn't really fair. No one knew this even existed until they dug it up.

I think this example is fair to compare in to Glasnevin. Imho. Its not a scatter of burials as I said its a graveyard.

How old does a graveyard have to be before you can dig up the skeletons and build on it?

boneless

lostexpectation wrote:

I think this example is fair to compare in to Glasnevin. Imho. Its not a scatter of burials as I said its a graveyard.

How old does a graveyard have to be before you can dig up the skeletons and build on it?

I think there are rules covering this. I'll try to find out. It might have something to do with living relatives/kin etc.

At least two 17th and 18th century graveyards have been built over in Dublin city centre to my knowledge. They were Hugeonout (spelling?) cemetaries and the remains were reinterred in Mount Jerome in a communal plot. This was in the '80's.

Capt'n Midnight

lostexpectation wrote:

(How recent does your death have to be that your graveyard doesn't get dug up).

Not very.
Remember the Royal Hospital graveyard in Kilmainham was moved to widen the road beside Heuston station.

If in an area where grave robbing is common (almost everywhere nowadays) then there is no question about whether to leave the stuff in the ground or not once discovered. While you might justify a 24/7 guard on the pyramids, paid for by tourist revenue, other locations would not be financially viable. As for the pyramids, the guards would be targets for islamic extremists and who's to say they could not be bribed.

IMHO much of today's archeology is destructive and part of a site should be sealed for future generations when better techniques would reveal more. BUT if that means that treasure hunters would trash it then it's better to have half a load than no bread. The solution is more money for archelogy and better remote sensing and more manpower. But that ain't likely.

lostexpectation

http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/Fri/rte-liveline.smil

interesting topic of discussion, a visiter to the bog bodies display was disturb by human remains being dug up and put on display...

she argues that they should be put back in the ground...

sites humains remains in Ireland study...

The Bodies exhibit by that german guy I find would be a different story, they havn't been removed from their graves.

M Ni'D crowbars the Tara arguement in which disrupts the discussion.

bizarre situation where they come to realise that they are running out of space for the bodies, where to do you store them al... maybe where they were buried...

where would these men want to spend there eternity?

maybe we should bury our bodies much much deeper...

lostexpectation

does anybody know where these boides are being sotred
http://www.petitiononline.com/taraeire/petition.html