Opinions : used Alfa Romeo 156 1.6?

eas

Hello

As hard as I try to pay attention to my better judgement, I'm finding it hard to resist these on my hunt for a used car.

As an example - 02 Alfa Romeo 156 TS 16V 1.6 Litre with 32,000 miles in "immac" condition for €10,000 -

what do you all think? Should they be avoided? Any previous/current owners out there?

many thanks

eas

Hotwheels

Has it a full history wid it? price sounds right...they can be costly to run/repair, shop around for the best place to get a service..
I get mine done in Portlaoise, and found these folks very good.. full service €175-200... but on the plus side...they are fab to drive...
I've a 04 meself (luv it)..and I'm gonna be pulling out with a new 159 Mjet TDi in April...stunning car....Mmmmmmm can't wait....
Problem with Alfa's is...once ya get into one..its hard to get away from them...

jimmycrackcorm

I used to have a 156 before my company car. Loved it. They are lousy to buy from new with bad depreciation but are an absolute bargain second hand. Alfas bad reputation stems from their older models, things have improved greatly with the 156/147 on.

I'd go for it - I'd buy another in a flash (not new again though).

ds20prefecture

Go for it. I still miss my 156, 3 years later.

This link might help you make up your mind. Almost 80% of people who have owned an Alfa would buy another.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054850153&highlight=owned+an+alfa

Note that 1 of the "Yes & I would" voters didn't actually own an Alfa,likewise one of the "Yes & never again" voters. Also, there was a strange case where someone joined Boards, voted "Yes & never again" and then never posted again... In otherwords it was someone voting twice. For some reason people feel very strongly against Alfas.

eas

very good. Thanks for the opinions. The cars styling looks the business. The one i'm interested in says it comes with full service records...so.

I know this sounds like a granny question - what about the boot? (my wife will need to know that she can fit a buggy into it without problem)

Hotwheels

Boots not bad...but it depends on the size of the buggy, and if it will fold fairly flat....Why not try fitting it in the boot...See how it goes..
Good luck with it anyways....:)

alias no.9

At 32k the cambelt should really be changed for peace of mind. It was originally recommended at 72k but premature failures have brought that in to 36k miles. If you're buying from a garage, make sure they do this, if you're buying privately budget for it ~€600-€700. A thing known as a 'variator' which engages the high lift cams can need replacing too, you'll know this because the engine will sound like a diesel, it's best to do this with the cam belt as all of the labour would need to be duplicated if it needs doing later. A noisey variator will not harm the engine.

alias no.9

The boot may not be what you're looking for. A colleague got rid of his 156 because of the buggy not fitting in. The rear seats don't fold either, though there is a ski flap behind the arm rest.

ds20prefecture

Agreed, the boot is not huge and the opening is small enough.

The estate is worth a look too, BTW. Very pretty car. Boot still not huge, but better shaped.

Eoin

eas wrote:

I know this sounds like a granny question - what about the boot? (my wife will need to know that she can fit a buggy into it without problem)

Hi, the boot isn't great at all, bring the buggy with you and check that it goes in OK.

There have been loads of Alfa threads on this forum, do a search and you will get a load of results. I would advise you try and ignore the uninformed "IT'S A FIAT AND GOING TO BREAK DOWN!!!!one111" comments, and listen to those who have actually owned one.

I drive a 2000 1.6 Sportivo, and for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

Pros

• The drive is absolutely fantastic, it hugs the road like no other saloon I have driven.
• Styling is nice, recessed rear door handles make it look like more of a coupe than a saloon
• Quite well specified. The sportivo model comes with 16" alloys, sideskirts, electric sunroof, carbon fibre dash, RCL & alarm, driver's arm rest, electric front windows, electric mirrors, leather steering wheel and gear knob.
• Very comfortable; the seats are not bucket seats but do "hug" you more than a lot of other cars do
• Personally, I have found it to be as reliable as any other car I have had (including a Mark 4 Golf). Servicing has been pretty cheap - just got mine done last week for €330 inc VAT.
• 1.6 engine has 120 BHP, which is probably quite good for a car of it's size

Cons

• Resale value is poor, you are going to lose a couple of grand on yours pretty quickly. However, the 1.6 has the highest resale value, for some reason. Maybe because it only came out in 2000, while the 1.8 and 2.0 litre versions came out in late 1998. Also, there are a lot less 1.6 versions on the road from what I have seen
• Car is pretty thirsty, I do about 400 miles to a full tank (about 55 litres I think) which isn't great
• Timing belt has to be done at around 35-40K miles. They have to remove a good bit of the engine for this, so it costs around €500 or so. Brakes will also cost a lot to replace.
• Reliability image is not good. A lot of people quote facts and figures at you about their reliability, but for the majority of 156 owners on this forum, it has not been an issue at all.
• No cup holders for those who like their coffee on the way into work!
• Not much space in the rear seats and boot for buggies, baby seats etc - thankfully not an issue for me.

You should look at the 1.8 litre engine as well, if the tax, insurance and running costs aren't too much more - the extra grunt may be worth it.

I was trying to sell mine for a good while due to a new house, but found it hard to sell. In the end I decided to hang on to it, and am delighted I did so, as I didn't want to give someone a bargain of a car at my expense.

Edit:

On the boot issue, my dad also have a 156 (owned new from 1998 without one problem), and he can fit his bulky golf bag in the boot with no problems. I would imagine that a folded buggy would be smaller...

eas

thanks again for all the info.

I'm will see the car Saturday, will bring buggy along for interests sake.

I'll also check on the cam belt - I've heard others say the same thing.

The Estate is also very nice, the ones I've seen tho are all 1.8. Is that the base engine for them, or do they come in the 1.6 as well?

unkel

ds20prefecture wrote:

there was a strange case where someone joined Boards, voted "Yes & never again" and then never posted again... In otherwords it was someone voting twice

That person is looking at this thread right now...

00so

Do not be fooled by looks. I owned one from new and will never buy another Alfa. Terrible electrics, sticky handles, timing belt failures common, few dealers, poor quality interiors, bulbs continually blow, boot is too small as you said, faulty speakers.
In 2000 there were 2645 new Alfas registered in Ireland. In 2005 there were 454. This is a clear indication of the level of customer satisfaction with the brand.

ciarsd

alias no.9 wrote:

At 32k the cambelt should really be changed for peace of mind. It was originally recommended at 72k but premature failures have brought that in to 36k miles. If you're buying from a garage, make sure they do this, if you're buying privately budget for it ~€600-€700. A thing known as a 'variator' which engages the high lift cams can need replacing too, you'll know this because the engine will sound like a diesel, it's best to do this with the cam belt as all of the labour would need to be duplicated if it needs doing later. A noisey variator will not harm the engine.

Not to be picky in your reply, but to give some more info the the OP...

The timing belt service schedule was revised and rewound back to 50K miles from 72K miles. But seen as this is so close to the 48K mile service, most TSpark Alfa owners, including myself, and main dealers have opted for a change at 36K miles instead - saves playing russian roulette with 2K miles to play with or a big bill engine rebuild at worst case.

With regard to the variator, the newer the Alfa the less chance of the fault. I had mine replaced FOC under warranty (Aug '02 car) and have not had any trouble since. It wont damage your engine, even if it sounds like a tappety/diesel engine for the first 5 secs at startup (10 secs or so at max), but it will compromise performance of the TSpark engine.

The reason why you hear it at startup and then disappearing, is because within the 5-10 secs, then engine oil pressure has built up and lubricated around the part - if the noise persists after this time, its something that will need some more investigation.

ciarsd

00so wrote:

In 2000 there were 2645 new Alfas registered in Ireland. In 2005 there were 454. This is a clear indication of the level of customer satisfaction with the brand.

before this thread is closed on the OP, or before it goes down the usual road on this board... I would like to point you to the fact that in 2000 the 156 was not long released...there was nothing else like it on the road. Lots of people bought it, lots of reps got them, lots of business invested in them as company cars hence the large quantity sold. In 2005, there is not the same hysteria around the models. They are well known/recognised/the market is swamped with choice of used 156s and in need of the fresh new looks of the 159 etc.

Something worth taking on board.

Back to OP and to his/her topic

ds20prefecture

00so wrote:

Do not be fooled by looks. I owned one from new and will never buy another Alfa. Terrible electrics, sticky handles, timing belt failures common, few dealers, poor quality interiors, bulbs continually blow, boot is too small as you said, faulty speakers.
In 2000 there were 2645 new Alfas registered in Ireland. In 2005 there were 454. This is a clear indication of the level of customer satisfaction with the brand.

Amazing. To think you'd go to the effort of joining a bunch of discussion groups just to post 2 comments months apart on a similar subject. Is there something in profiles that emails you when someone posts about an Alfa?

Interesting sales figures - may I ask where you got them?

alias no.9

ciarsd wrote:

before this thread is closed on the OP, or before it goes down the usual road on this board... I would like to point you to the fact that in 2000 the 156 was not long released...there was nothing else like it on the road. Lots of people bought it, lots of reps got them, lots of business invested in them as company cars hence the large quantity sold. In 2005, there is not the same hysteria around the models. They are well known/recognised/the market is swamped with choice of used 156s and in need of the fresh new looks of the 159 etc.

Something worth taking on board.

Back to OP and to his/her topic

Good point. The 156 was released in mid 1998 and there were 6 month waiting lists for quite some time. It was probably 2000 before dealers could get enough cars to meet demand, coupled with 2000 being such a big year for car sales, comparing that to the last year of sale, when production had ended and the new model was announced is hardly going to tell you anything unusual.

Eoin

00so wrote:

Do not be fooled by looks. I owned one from new and will never buy another Alfa. Terrible electrics, sticky handles, timing belt failures common, few dealers, poor quality interiors, bulbs continually blow, boot is too small as you said, faulty speakers.

Just on the dealer thing; I do recommend finding a good garage for servicing- I did not find the garage I bought mine from particularly helpful.

The bulbs can blow a bit, but having said that I have now gone 9 months or so without having to replace one. In comparison, my Golf needed a new bulb or two every 3 months or so. I have no problems with the interiour - again, in comparison the quality of my golf's interior was much worse. No problems with any of the other things you mention.

I recently changed to Alasta Autos in D4, who I found excellent to deal with. Like I said earlier, it cost €330 for the service. This did not include any parts to be replaced but they did also have to refit the side skirts due to a particularly poor attempt on my behalf fitting a spare tire

ds20prefecture

ciarsd wrote:

before this thread is closed on the OP, or before it goes down the usual road on this board... I would like to point you to the fact that in 2000 the 156 was not long released...there was nothing else like it on the road. Lots of people bought it, lots of reps got them, lots of business invested in them as company cars hence the large quantity sold. In 2005, there is not the same hysteria around the models. They are well known/recognised/the market is swamped with choice of used 156s and in need of the fresh new looks of the 159 etc.

Just to back this up somewhat

Sales of new Alfa Romeos by year, covering the years the 156 was introduced to the end. Very depressing comparing 2004 to 2000, less so when comparing to 1998. The 156 & 147 are at the end of their product lives, and are the only two products sold in any volume by AR in Ireland.
1998 885
1999 1971
2000 2547
2001 2087
2002 1319
2003 836
2004 645

The question is: How many 2000 AR 156 buyers would buy a 159?

bazz26

ds20prefecture wrote:

Just to back this up somewhat

Sales of new Alfa Romeos by year, covering the years the 156 was introduced to the end. Very depressing comparing 2004 to 2000, less so when comparing to 1998. The 156 & 147 are at the end of their product lives, and are the only two products sold in any volume by AR in Ireland.
1998 885
1999 1971
2000 2547
2001 2087
2002 1319
2003 836
2004 645

The question is: How many 2000 AR 156 buyers would buy a 159?

Just to add fuel to the fire, the 147 and 156 both received major facelifts in 2004 and not alot of people took to the facelifted models.

Never thought I would hear myself defending Alfa Romeo

Eoin

bazz26 wrote:

Just to add fuel to the fire, the 147 and 156 both received major facelifts in 2004 and not alot of people took to the facelifted models.

Never thought I would hear myself defending Alfa Romeo

Personally I like the new facelifted 156, but the only issue I have with it is that it takes away from the Alfa GT model as all the models (I think the 166 was also face lifted?) seem to share the same grill.

bazz26

I actually like the facelifted 156 especially the Ti model with the 17" alloys and the small body kit.

testicle

So when's the 159 out?

ciarsd

Its official launch was on tuesday night in Ireland for dealers, management etc etc. I work with a woman who's husband is quite high up in AR/Fiat Ireland.

There is a LHD demo (only on view however) in Airton Alfa, Tallaght, but I believe that the dealers are taking delivery of ordered models from sometime in Feb onwards.

It's already to be seen on roads in mainland europe.

Hotwheels

They have a left-hooker in Portlaois, I had a look yesterday, stunning looks in and out....was wondering how it would look with door handles on the backdoors..but they look ok....

Can't wait to drive it....

Anan1

My mother has a 156 2.0TS, bought new in 98, now with 106k. I drove it last week, and it still feels like a new car. In terms of servicing, she found the official dealer network to be utterly incompetent. Alasta are good, but not at all cheap. She's been using an Alfa specialist by the name of TI Autos recently, whom I couldn't recommend highly enough. Do bear in mind though that these are not cheap cars to run properly. The 36k cambelt services will in reality end up costing E1,200 plus, given that there will inevitably be other parts needing replacement at around the same time.

ciarsd

Anan1 wrote:

The 36k cambelt services will in reality end up costing E1,200 plus, given that there will inevitably be other parts needing replacement at around the same time.

I'm not so sure about the cost you have quoted for cambelt/auxilary belt/possible water pump and tensioner replacement. When I had this done on my 147 it was closer €500ish be it with a small discount from a friend in the trade. I'm not entirely sure of the exact cost as I had a service done at same time but no way was it €1200 or anywhere near it.

Ti autos comes highly recommended as an Alfa specialist. I cannot fault my own main dealer either...

eas

hi everyone, thanks again for the opionions.

I went to a local garage who had a 2002 156 1.6. Seems the boot is too small for our needs (so says my wife). She'll be the one driving it most, so I guess that's that. Took it for a spin, very impressed, but compared to the 00 Polo 1.0 that I drive at the moment I'd be easily pleased in the performance catagory.

I do think it's the best looking 4-5 year old car on the market, but not the one for us at the moment.

thanks again

eas