Thinking evil thoughts about estate agent and property seller

The_Conductor

Ok, guess I just want to vent a little steam here......

I've just bid a substantial sum of money on a nice house in Kildare Town which is being sold by Gunne Residential. There has been a table tennis bidding going on for the last 7 or 8 weeks (its now at 20,000 above the asking price).

Thats not whats even annoying me (ok, it is, but there is more)- the seller of the property is refusing to be drawn as to whether they are actually selling the property at all.............

Apparently they want to sell their house, but before they are committing to selling, they want to get planning permission to build a new house (somewhere in the vicinity which is being left unnamed at present.....)

So- they are actively selling their house (Gunne are holding viewings, its on www.myhome.ie and two interested parties including myself have already had the property surveyed)- but they are not willing to commit to selling (irrespective of what price they are offered).

Gunne are saying that realistically it could be another month before they get a decision on the planning, and after that there would be a month to appeal- and thereafter it could be another 10-12 weeks before everything is in place for the vendor. She guesses it could well be June/July before the house would be vacated by the seller, providing their planning application goes through without hitch and no-one lodges a complaint.

Is it normal for sellers to get away with abuse of potential buyers of property in this manner? Is it normal for reputable estate agents to go to so much trouble trying to sell property that they cannot even guarantee is on the market at all?

The only reason I have bidded on the property- is because it is genuinely a nice house with a lovely garden and I have been looking for something for so long. The location (near the railway station) is also excellent (as the other half doesn't drive and her parents are up the road just outside Monasterevin).

To say I am a tad pissed off at the whole situation is more than an understatement. I have the mortgage arranged, I have my solicitor ready to go, I have the property surveyed- apart from the lack of a certificate of planning compliance that may be necessary to put my mind at rest- and not knowing whether its even for sale, arrrrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

secret_squirrel

Be ruthless and pull out. You cant afford to be sentimental and get attached to a house you may never get the chance to buy. Especially if its just gone 20k above the odds.

Tell them you arent interested in being messed about. Also ask the estate agent whether their behaviour is allowed in their code of conduct (if they have one :rolleyes: )

Chopper

the seller of the property is refusing to be drawn as to whether they are actually selling the property at all

so you are making an offer to buy something which may, or may not, be for sale...... and you are getting upset when the offer is not accepted ?

i.e. they are doing what you expect them to do and you still get upset, why ?


You could ask the seller to close the deal with a contract subject to planning but since they may not want to sell at all this might not be accepted... (remember planning permission lasts for 6 months or so and can be renewed to keep their window open for a couple of years)

I would call the agent and put an expire date on your current offer. Then move on and keep looking. There is nothing more you can do. Getting steamed up over this will not help you find a new house !

squire1

It sounds like this one could end up being a heartbreaker. Even if you win the bidding and agree a sale the buyer may very well pull out. If they are waiting on planning, will they be prepared to move out and sell they house before the new one is finished?

Sounds to me like the seller is just testing the market. You are investing a lot of time and emotion in this and you have to ask yourself if this particular house is worth the risk.

Use your gut feeling but it sounds like you could get messed around a lot in this deal.

There are plenty more houses around the area.

Beruthiel

smccarrick wrote:

Is it normal for sellers to get away with abuse of potential buyers of property in this manner? Is it normal for reputable estate agents to go to so much trouble trying to sell property that they cannot even guarantee is on the market at all?

exact same thing happened to me.
the owner of the house had already been refused planning permission, so they re-applied and at the same time had people bidding for their house, I had put in my bid before finding this out, I waited for over a week and nothing was happening - I told the estate agent this wasn't on messing me about like this and I pulled out - I suggest you do the same, planning permission can take up to 3 months and they might not even get it, which means the house will be taken off the market for a few weeks before they start the whole process over again - it's total bs and shouldn't be allowed.

I have the property surveyed

why would you have done this so soon?
always go sale agreed subject to survey, that's when you should be doing the survey, after they have gone sale agreed with you, not before.

Dellgirl

I would call the agent and put an expire date on your current offer. Then move on and keep looking. There is nothing more you can do. Getting steamed up over this will not help you find a new house !

Sounds to me like the seller is just testing the market. You are investing a lot of time and emotion in this and you have to ask yourself if this particular house is worth the risk.

Well said. Buying a gaff is stressful anough without piling more on top. Putting an expiry date on your offer is a good suggestion. It sounds like a sellers market up there from what you say.

MorningStar

First off €20k more than asking price unless over 20% of the asking price you can't complain at all as asking prices tend to to be 10-20% below expected price.

Their house and any line they say about why it is still on the market does not matter and should not be believed. Assume they are looking for the most money as that is the only thing you can know for sure

Keep looking at houses, you may find better in price or building. Putting you hope on this property really can't end well without a lot of heartbreak one way or the other. You may also get the heartbreak and no house.

OMcGovern

You said you got the house surveyed already ?

That normally only happens after you get to the sale agreed stage.
No point in you paying for a surveyor, then getting outbid.... waste of your money.

The_Conductor

I have been looking for a long time- I bought my first house a few years ago and am in a position whereby I would be able to significantly increase my offer if I had to- this house is by far the nicest I have come across (on a number of different grounds). I know I was jumping the gun somewhat- but if it is for sale, its my intention to buy (unless it gets totally out of reason).

Dellgirl

Good luck then!

Sales are often subject to a number of matters, planning permission, purchaser arranging finance, Vendor acquiring alternative accomodation etc.

For me the Auctioneer is simply telling it as it is. Indeed, while people might say 'it shouldn't be done', I would take the contrary view. The Constitution protects the right to property, under no circumstances should the law be allowed to intervene and enforce a sale in favour of a private party where the Vendor is not tied into any contract. That logic could see Vendors on the side of the road, which is nonsensical.

I know people who have had a bid accepted, contracts issue, finance arranged, and only then has the sale fallen through because some chain of transactions broke down. So while it might be galling, it is the Vendor's prerogative and the auctioneer can hardly be fairer than clearly signalling the position. You can either hang in or move along. Of course, to progress matters you could suggest, if your bid is acceptable, signing contracts subject to the Vendors succeeding in their planning - it's not unknown, but still perhaps lacks the certainty you want.

secret_squirrel

smccarrick wrote:

but if it is for sale, its my intention to buy (unless it gets totally out of reason).

Well tbh honest if you are that attached to the house then you are a setting yourself up for a fall. Your have already sunk money into getting a premature survey done, and you are willing to pay well over the odds to win a bidding war.

Given the above I dont really see what help you expect. If you are not prepared to look at this very coldly and analytically you are setting yourself up for a fall. Good luck I hope you arent disappointed.

Victor

Chopper wrote:

(remember planning permission lasts for 6 months or so and can be renewed to keep their window open for a couple of years)

It can take 6 months to get, but it lasts several years.

The_Conductor

Victor wrote:

It can take 6 months to get, but it lasts several years.

Yes, I think its valid for 5 years from date of issue. Details are on Oasis though.

jdivision

If they don't sell I would think that legally you could definitely claim the cost of the survey off them.

jdivision

jdivision wrote:

If they don't sell I would think that legally you could definitely claim the cost of the survey off them.

On the assumption that - as always happens - all correspondence is 'subject to contract' and there is no part-performance, he is not entitled to a cent and cannot claim anything.

The law, inlcuding caselaw, is set out here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873668

Berns

I've my house on the market up here in the north. Here the estate agent has a few of a few hundred i think if the house goes off the market & they dont wanna sell. Now weather there is a time limit on how long it can be on the market or if something can be done as offers have been made above the asking price and refused i dunno but maybe something to look into. Mightn't get you any funds lost but maybe some satisfaction from knowin they out a few hundred