Poker forum is a bit busy these days.

Lafortezza

Just a little less busy than After Hours at the moment.

Culchie

We should 'out' all the lurkers...name and shame .... make them post !

"Yes, you're all a bunch of lurkers over there !"

JustMac

Culchie wrote:

We should 'out' all the lurkers...name and shame .... make them post !

"Yes, you're all a bunch of lurkers over there !"

Nothing wrong with being a lurker is there??

Have only been playing a few months and think I learn a lot from the reading discussions here. It is a pity to see some put downs from regular posters when new posters do decide to add something no matter if the content is questionable or their level is obviously not great. I do plan to post some hand histories in the future but for the moment I think I am embarrassed by my own crap play online. Also I would have nothing useful to add to some of the excellent feedback that I see on other peoples posts so I think I'm destined to be a lurker for another while.

Culchie

JustMac wrote:

Nothing wrong with being a lurker is there??

Have only been playing a few months and think I learn a lot from the reading discussions here. It is a pity to see some put downs from regular posters when new posters do decide to add something no matter if the content is questionable or their level is obviously not great. I do plan to post some hand histories in the future but for the moment I think I am embarrassed by my own crap play online. Also I would have nothing useful to add to some of the excellent feedback that I see on other peoples posts so I think I'm destined to be a lurker for another while.

Where did I say anything there was 'anything wrong' with it?

No need to be so sensitive.

shoutman

JustMac wrote:

whine whine whine I'm a stupid lurker!!!!

Quiet you!!!!!

Hehe only joking

mewso

Culchie wrote:

Where did I say anything there was 'anything wrong' with it?

No need to be so sensitive.

Don't think he was being that sensitive. Made some good points.

Culchie

What is this, Chinese Whispers?

Did I say he didn't make any valid points?



I said ... paraphrase "I never said there is anything wrong with lurkers"

doc71

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

JustMac

Culchie wrote:

No need to be so sensitive.

Now I'm never going to post anything. sulk, sulk.

roryc

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

anybody in particular

ntlbell

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

Sorry?

Would you like to be a bit more specific?

Ste05

JustMac wrote:

Now I'm never going to post anything. sulk, sulk.

lol

I think the only reason some new posters seem to get a bit of “flack” is because they don’t listen to the advice that is posted or just get over sensitive if their play is criticised at all and then resort to childish replies.

Honestly though it will help your game no end to post a hand and have a discussion about it. Much more so than merely reading about other hands.

Because if it’s your hand, only you know what you were thinking at the time, and with some follow up questions that may be asked about the hand, you may realise that there are more things to take into account than you initially thought and in fact didn't, I’d highly recommend posting up a hand, it doesn’t matter how badly you think you played it. Post it and see what you take away. The more active debate we have the better.

P.S. Don’t mind that bad bad man Culchie , he’s always been a megolamaniacal bully:eek: , with all his fancy websites and Poker rooms …..

EDIT: Look at the overly sensitive regular posters....... LOL, worried it might be you lads????

JustMac

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. best of luck with your poker.

Thanks doc71. Down about 80euro down on PPP but determined to improve my game to get it back. Harringtons 2 books are en route and hopefully they will help.

Culchie

Ste05 wrote:

lol

I think the only reason some new posters seem to get a bit of “flack” is because they don’t listen to the advice that is posted or just get over sensitive if their play is criticised at all and then resort to childish replies.

Honestly though it will help your game no end to post a hand and have a discussion about it. Much more so than merely reading about other hands.

Because if it’s your hand, only you know what you were thinking at the time, and with some follow up questions that may be asked about the hand, you may realise that there are more things to take into account than you initially thought and in fact didn't, I’d highly recommend posting up a hand, it doesn’t matter how badly you think you played it. Post it and see what you take away. The more active debate we have the better.

P.S. Don’t mind that bad bad man Culchie , he’s always been a megolamaniacal bully:eek: , with all his fancy websites and Poker rooms …..

EDIT: Look at the overly sensitive regular posters....... LOL, worried it might be you lads????

Yea, and a big Boo Hoo from me:(

ianmc38

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

Oo. I like it. Stir that sh*t.

Ste05

Culchie wrote:

Yea, and a big Boo Hoo from me:(

mewso

Culchie wrote:

What is this, Chinese Whispers?

Did I say he didn't make any valid points?



I said ... paraphrase "I never said there is anything wrong with lurkers"

Sigh.

JustMac

Ste05 wrote:

lol
Honestly though it will help your game no end to post a hand and have a discussion about it. Much more so than merely reading about other hands.

Because if it’s your hand, only you know what you were thinking at the time, and with some follow up questions that may be asked about the hand, you may realise that there are more things to take into account than you initially thought and in fact didn't, I’d highly recommend posting up a hand, it doesn’t matter how badly you think you played it. Post it and see what you take away. The more active debate we have the better.

Thanks Ste05.
Yeah I know it makes sense and I know I should post some hands. Will do in a month or 2 but at the moment most of my problem is the fact that I'm not thinking half enough when I make decisions. I've read a few books and most of the threads here but still when I play I find I'm playing on instinct more than with all the information available to me. At a basic level I understand the concept of postion, pot odds, implied odds, player styles etc. Until I start applying at least some of these to my play I dont think there is much point in posting a hand.

bmc

JustMac wrote:

Thanks Ste05.
Yeah I know it makes sense and I know I should post some hands. Will do in a month or 2 but at the moment most of my problem is the fact that I'm not thinking half enough when I make decisions. I've read a few books and most of the threads here but still when I play I find I'm playing on instinct more than with all the information available to me. At a basic level I understand the concept of postion, pot odds, implied odds, player styles etc. Until I start applying at least some of these to my play I dont think there is much point in posting a hand.

Talk with friends in the same position about hands, situations, good calls, bad calls etc and it'll all start to become more natural. Also, stay reading posts and playing games. It'll all start to take less conscious effort, although... that said... if you can maintain conscious effort at the same time... all the better.

Doc Farrell

ntlbell wrote:

Sorry?

Would you like to be a bit more specific?

I think we both know he was talking about your play.

and definitely not mine.... :rolleyes:

5starpool

Doc Farrell wrote:

I think we both know he was talking about your play.

and definitely not mine.... :rolleyes:

You think you'd be classed as an expert Des? Really?

kincsem

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

You talking to me? :cool:

Guilty. :mad:

ocallagh

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

I don't think it is fair to criticise a player based on one performance.. Everyone has a bad day at the office now and then, especially when it comes to poker... I know, I have plenty of them.

And I doubt many of the regular posters here consider themselves experts..

I agree some posters here are OTP aggressive in some of their posts and I'd prefer to see less of that.

Doc Farrell

hear hear Niall.

now thats advice worth listening to!











(wanker:D )

RoundTower

doc71 wrote:

JustMac... I wouldn't worry about "put downs" from other players. I was in the city west the weekend, I watched some of the so called experts in action. Conclusion ......... not so expert. best of luck with your poker.

I honestly think the standard of advice given on these boards has got a lot worse. Some regular posters here are giving terrible advice, that would be bad for a new player to follow. I don't want to start a personal attack on anyone.

shoutman

in fairness Roundtower
I don't think posters on this board go out of there way to post bad advice. I don't think that anyone claims that their view on how a hand should be played is the absolute right way to play it and that any other opinions on how to play a certain hand are just wrong.
People give there opinions and advice in order to help, it is not a service they are paid for and I for one feel I have benefited from advice given on here.

I take some and I leave some if I see no logic to it or if I feel it does not correspond to my style of play.


I think it would be a sad state of affairs if people would have to say at the end of every post:

*Any views represented in this thread are those of my own and do not represent the wider poker playing community. My word is not that of God.*

regards
Luke

Dub13

3:00 am on a Thursday morning and 12 people in the poker forum.....After hours only has 9.

RoundTower

shoutman wrote:

I don't think that anyone claims that their view on how a hand should be played is the absolute right way to play it and that any other opinions on how to play a certain hand are just wrong.

I definitely disagree with this. For example, I often claim this about my views.

I don't think anyone sets out to give bad advice. But with so many new players on the boards, the standard in general is much lower than it used to be. There is a lot more noise now. You may be able to "take it or leave it", but it is hard for a new player to know which advice is good and which is bad. I would no longer recommend this site as a resource for people starting out in poker.

doc71

lads...what the f@ck, ye're taking my post up all wrong. I was merely saying to someone who was apprehensive about posting on in this forum, to basically work away and dont worry about what level your at, ie you dont have to be expert to post here, i certainly am not.
I gave no poker advice. I was trying to encourage someone to get involved if they wanted to....

roryc

RoundTower wrote:

I would no longer recommend this site as a resource for people starting out in poker.

How will this help? I still think this is the top poker website in Ireland. I just think we need a better 'crap filter'

Amaru

RoundTower wrote:

I honestly think the standard of advice given on these boards has got a lot worse. Some regular posters here are giving terrible advice, that would be bad for a new player to follow. I don't want to start a personal attack on anyone.

I completely agree with this. There's ALOT of bad advice given in almost every thread started on here, and as somebody who posts a lot, i often wonder if the advice i give is completely sound. If a good player was to post and tell me that this was incorrect and give me the reason why, i'd gladly take it, but thats the problem. There is a lot of very good players (some maybe even world class) who are members here, but so few of them engage in any sort of strategy discussion at any depth at all. That's why i like Hector's threads because he engages in argument and can defend his reason's for making plays.

ionapaul

One of the reasons for so much 'noise' is that there is a strong sense of community here, and many of the threads are very conversational in tone and content. I would argue this is precisely the reason the forum is so busy these days...there are many forums / websites where hand histories and the benefits of one rackback scheme over another are discussed ad nauseum, but there are very few with any real sense of community. Perhaps some boardsters feel that frivolity should be eliminated and we should spend our time on this forum discussing poker tactics, strategies and little else, but I don't think most here favour that. As for the quality of advice or discussion, considering boards also contains such forums as 'The Cuckoo's Nest', 'The Thunderdrome' and 'After Hours', I'd say we're doing alright! Any ideas on how we can improve the quality of content in here?

Culchie

Amaru wrote:

I completely agree with this. There's ALOT of bad advice given in almost every thread started on here, and as somebody who posts a lot, i often wonder if the advice i give is completely sound. If a good player was to post and tell me that this was incorrect and give me the reason why, i'd gladly take it, but thats the problem. There is a lot of very good players (some maybe even world class) who are members here, but so few of them engage in any sort of strategy discussion at any depth at all. That's why i like Hector's threads because he engages in argument and can defend his reason's for making plays.

I think if you stand back a little and think about things in context, Poker is a very individualist discipline.

Many different styles of play. Many different styles of personality.
Poker players are also very opinionated in general, nothing wrong with this, in fact it is probably a neccesity to succeed.
Some people are mathematically and statistically inclined, others are more perceptive and are 'feel' players.

So 'advice' is always going to be taken on board by some people and disregarded by others.

There is no 100% answer to most questions.

Amaru

Culchie wrote:

post

But you see, that's the thing. Just because there is several right answers to a situation, does not mean that there is no wrong answer.

jimbling

ionapaul wrote:

One of the reasons for so much 'noise' is that there is a strong sense of community here, and many of the threads are very conversational in tone and content. I would argue this is precisely the reason the forum is so busy these days...there are many forums / websites where hand histories and the benefits of one rackback scheme over another are discussed ad nauseum, but there are very few with any real sense of community.

nail on head

Waylander

Amaru wrote:

But you see, that's the thing. Just because there is several right answers to a situation, does not mean that there is no wrong answer.

But similarly, and this is not intended as a personal dig at anyone, just because someone posts up a different opinion to yours does not mean that they are wrong. Allot of people can be quite intolereant of other opinions.

marius

As someone who is relatively new to Poker I genuinely believe that my game has improved immensley in the last two weeks - a lot of which I would put down to reading the opinions and advice on this forum.

Now, im not a neurologist but I do know that most people have brians - when you read an opinion, even as a newbie, you can make up your own mind a to whether it is of value or not. Keep up the good work and the nonsense as well....

yom 1

marius wrote:

Now, im not a neurologist but I do know that most people have brians

Thank god otherwise there could be a few brians in trouble:D

Personally i'm more a lurker than a poster. I have only been playing about six months so consider myself fairly new to the game. I really think this is an excellent forum. I have found myself learning quite a bit and now start thinking about my approach to playing hands - ie. pos, whether to limp, check raise, bet sizes and stuff. Before I would just play on instinct and not really understand the logic behind my play or anyone else's.

One thing I wanted to know is someone was trying to explain quick ways of calculating drawing odds but it was during a game so couldn't really take it in(and I was drinking). I think he said something about double it and add 1 or something. Can anyone help?

ionapaul

One thing that helped me there, was to find a website with a nicely laid out table detailing drawing odds, etc, print it out and have it beside me while playing online. After a while you'll memorise the numbers, which is very helpful for live play, given that I've never seen anyone with a 'cheat sheet' on their lap while in a casino! Maybe they cram the numbers onto the back of their hands, like we all did for the leaving cert!*



*not me, I am much like the Rainman, a human super-calculator

JustMac

RoundTower wrote:

I don't think anyone sets out to give bad advice. But with so many new players on the boards, the standard in general is much lower than it used to be. There is a lot more noise now. You may be able to "take it or leave it", but it is hard for a new player to know which advice is good and which is bad. I would no longer recommend this site as a resource for people starting out in poker.

As a relatively new player I disagree with this. I had posted in this thread that I don't think enough about the decisions I'm making when playing poker. I tend to play by instinct with the 2 cards in front of me despite knowing and understanding a lot more than this. This site certainly promotes what bmc had suggested to me:

bmc wrote:

Talk with friends in the same position about hands, situations, good calls, bad calls etc and it'll all start to become more natural. Also, stay reading posts and playing games. It'll all start to take less conscious effort, although... that said... if you can maintain conscious effort at the same time... all the better.

Culchie wrote:

I think if you stand back a little and think about things in context, Poker is a very individualist discipline.
Many different styles of play. Many different styles of personality.
Poker players are also very opinionated in general, nothing wrong with this, in fact it is probably a neccesity to succeed. Some people are mathematically and statistically inclined, others are more perceptive and are 'feel' players. So 'advice' is always going to be taken on board by some people and disregarded by others.
There is no 100% answer to most questions.

Very true. I don't think I'd learn too much if I was to only care to read/rely on posts by certain individuals who I belive to be the players offering the best advice on this site. I need to evalaute the advice for myself and this process alone should hopefully help me to consider far more variables when making decisions. I've read 2 poker books to date (SS2 and Theory of Poker) and as far as I can remember both are littered with many caveats such as 'This is only a suggestion, every situation differs and other variables may mean that this would be an incorrect play' etc. IMHO New players like myself need get our minds 'jump started' to get the thought processes going for ourselves. We can lear but can't just solely rely on the advice of others.

marius wrote:

As someone who is relatively new to Poker I genuinely believe that my game has improved immensley in the last two weeks - a lot of which I would put down to reading the opinions and advice on this forum.

Now, im not a neurologist but I do know that most people have brians - when you read an opinion, even as a newbie, you can make up your own mind a to whether it is of value or not. Keep up the good work and the nonsense as well....

Exactly

Waylander

Yes Yom, once you have put your opponent on a hand, you can calculate how many outs (cards you can hit to put you ahead) you have after the flop. Once you have done this, you can multiply the number of outs by 4 before the turn or by 2 before the river to calculate your percentage chance of hitting. The main problem with this is that you have to be able to rely on yourself to put your opponent on the correct hand regularly. Once you have done the calculation you can work out if you are getting enough odds from the pot to call. For example, after the flop you have an up and down straight draw, leaves you with 8 outs against say a set or 2 pair. So fromm the turn you have a 32% chance of hitting, which is 1 in 3 times, so if you are getting better than 2-1 non your call, it is a good call.

One proviso though, is that you only have a 32% chance of hitting if you see both turn and river, and you may have to put more money in the pot before the river, this also has to be accounted for.


Hope this helps

Amaru

I think what he may have been explaining was calculating your odds of winning from your suspected number of outs. You multiply the outs you have by 2, and then by the number of cards left to come, ie 1 if its just the river, 2 for the turn and river.

So a straight draw with 8 outs on the flop has

8 X 2 X 2 = 32%

and on the turn has

8 X 2 X 1= 16%

Note these figures are never exact, but they're close enough. Once you know your percentage chance of winning, figure out what the pot is laying you. If it's better than your odds if winning, continue playing. If it isn't, fold.

EDIT: Waylander and I are apparently on the same wavelength...

JustMac

ionapaul wrote:

One thing that helped me there, was to find a website with a nicely laid out table detailing drawing odds, etc, print it out and have it beside me while playing online. After a while you'll memorise the numbers, which is very helpful for live play, given that I've never seen anyone with a 'cheat sheet' on their lap while in a casino! Maybe they cram the numbers onto the back of their hands, like we all did for the leaving cert!*

This is top of my list of things to help me improve my game. I hope to have a couple of printouts at hand for when playing online. Just some things to keep an eye on while playing, not to dictate how I play each game.
I had considered the following:
1. List with drawing odds for each number outs
2. CheckList with reminders of things to consider when making a decision (position, pot odds, implied odds, folding equity etc)
3. Starting hand groupings or hands in ranking order.

I was planning to post with these once I had a couple done and look for feedback.

pokertroll

yom 1 wrote:

One thing I wanted to know is someone was trying to explain quick ways of calculating drawing odds but it was during a game so couldn't really take it in(and I was drinking). I think he said something about double it and add 1 or something. Can anyone help?

This is only an approximation:
On the flop, percentage chance of improving = (no_of_outs * 4)
On the turn, percentage chance of improving = (no_of_outs * 2)+2.

yom 1

Cheers Waylander, Amaru and Pokertroll. That was exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully this will help me in the near future.

shoutman

http://www.planetstacked.com/holdem/odds/

Worth a visit if looking up about drawing odds etc.