Tradesmen and cash

awishawash

I was just wondering what the story is with paying these blokes cash, no questions asked. Can I ask for a receipt on a cash job without peeing a tradesman off? VAT back? Whats the norm, put up and shut up?

stag39

all i can say is shhhhh!!! once the job is done to the regulations who cares cept cash is nice...;)

rooferPete

Hi,

Paying anyone who provides goods and services cash to avoid VAT or other revenue is not only an offence but you are throwing all your consumer rights away.

If for example the job is badly done you can't even use the small claims court to recover your money let alone any possible damages the bad workmanship may have caused.

There is nothing wrong with paying the invoice using cash provided the invoice shows the VAT and you receive a receipt showing both the amount paid and the VAT registered number.

Take care, an invoice and receipt from "XYZ Service Provider" with no address and a cell phone number is usually not worth the paper it's written on.

Of course being a member of the Gang of Thieves and Rip Off Merchants I could be giving you completely wrong information

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karltimber

it also really depends on the "amount" of cash that is being handed over.

If it's e100 - well invoices & vat (however illegal ) may not be worth it.

But as Rooferpete said -if its a few grand for plumbing,roof work etc
thats a different story .

its always good to use someone local also - so you know that they will be around if anyhting goes wrong !!

MorningStar

I think Pete pointed out a big issue by just saying VAT. Is there any reason why you think trades people should not pay tax?

awishawash

Well I think Morningstar has summed up the lot in that last rhetoric.

fintan

Tradespeople offering "cash" price is one of the few things that will make me fly off the handle.

Its an awful thing that gives us all a bad name.

Cheers

Fintan

mad m

Cmon we all know some people actually say to tradesmen "Can you do a discount if I gave you cash"..

davelerave

customers on domestic work are just as guilty generally (as us tradesmen )offering cash for a discount price

rooferPete

Hi,

How do you know if the discount is real ?

13.5% VAT is an easy amount to bury especially on small jobs, so take the actual price including VAT add 10% and the customer thinks they got a bargain by haggling for the discount.

There is a lot more than just a VAT number, I carry a Safe Pass card and two Construction Skills Certificates and a C2 (all in card form).

The Safe Pass means I know the difference between safe and dangerous work practices.

The Construction Skills Certificates prove I have taken and passed both written and practical exams in my skills area.

The C2 means I am Tax Compliant not just with VAT but PAYE / PRSI for employees and that I have paid my share of tax's on my profits / earnings, and all of the required returns have been made on time in accordance with the rules laid down by our Government.

Yes that means I am every bit as tax compliant as the average PAYE worker, the work I undertake starts at €250.00 plus VAT up to €500,000.00.

My customers range from the small repairs to restoring State Buildings, there are many more like me so why anyone has to look to the "Black Market" to have work carried out to their homes, offices, factories, commercial or investment properties is something I can't understand.

Maybe now some can understand why I consider it funny using the mate of a fella they met down the pub who knows the wife's third cousins sister for a job because he has a ladder and a wash n' go cell phone

.

mad m

So pete you have never done a nixer(ever?).I know where you are coming from as far as keeping everything above board and running a compnay like yours,Ive never been a boss and at this stage I dont think I'm going to either.Its hard making decisions as a gaffa,getting work,pricing,taking on men,letting them go.Jesus no Ill steer clear.:)

And to be honest we all know that safe pass course is a joke.But the powers that be want it these days and they got it.

Actually mine is expired this feb,suppose Ill be on another days course soon.:rolleyes:

shabbyroad

in order for me to pay anyone €60 for a job I have to earn €100

(ok it's an approximation but you get the idea)

that's why I don't pay cash - why should I be the mug paying tax and then giving away any consumer rights I have ?

rooferPete

Hi mad m,

I can honestly say that I have never done a nixer, to clarify that statement I class a nixer to be work carried out after a person has finished their normal day's work.

By a normal day's work I mean work carried out for a full time employer for the agreed rate for a weeks work.

I don't qualify on that score because I never had a "standard" full time employer.

I have been a registered contractor since I was 17 years old just after completing my leaving cert, even when working learning my trade I was a sub contractor, and to be honest I'm not sure and neither are the revenue just how legal that was as the age of majority at the time was 21.

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homerhop

I have being doing nixers for the past 10 years or so nothing in the cost bracket as rooferPete, always got paid cash. Started doing nixers when I was an apprentice metal fabricator.
Getting a receipt will not garentee that you will get good workmanship.As with all buisnesses there are those that will do good work and those who will not.I have seen quiet a few jobs that have been done by registered tradesmen and wonder how the hell they get away with it.
For me being a third generation tradesman I take pride in what I do and have never had any comebacks, and I guess that is why I have always been kept busy

mad m

rooferPete wrote:

I have been a registered contractor since I was 17 years old just after completing my leaving cert, even when working learning my trade I was a sub contractor, and to be honest I'm not sure and neither are the revenue just how legal that was as the age of majority at the time was 21.

.

Well what can I say,its either in you or not.Fairplay to you at such a young age.


I personally blame the parents,:D .

Victor

awishawash wrote:

I was just wondering what the story is with paying these blokes cash, no questions asked. Can I ask for a receipt on a cash job without peeing a tradesman off? VAT back? Whats the norm, put up and shut up?

Hey, not only would that be illegal, it would be stupid.

So should I tell the revenue that you already have a wad of cash that you owe tax on?

Of course the problem with paying cash is you end up paying 21% VAt on your materials.

mad m

homerhop wrote:

For me being a third generation tradesman I take pride in what I do and have never had any comebacks, and I guess that is why I have always been kept busy

Well word by mouth is always a good compliment.Some tradesmen just dont take enough pride in their work these days.Wham bham thank you mam!

rooferPete

Hi mad m,

I wish I could say the path I found myself on was by choice but in all honesty it was more out of necessity.

I expect anyone who can remember the days of Ritchie Ryan as Finance Minister will understand what I am saying, for anyone to have a job was a blessing in itself.

I did have the advantage of being on roofs since I was seven years old, although I'm told I was younger

Like Homerhop I worked with both my Father and Grand Father, the work I started doing was keeping the work area clean, my Grand Father could have been described as a fanatic for a clean work place.

I still remember his words, "It doesn't matter how much or how little you get done in a day always make sure you clean up".

Their work ethic was my foundation, it's why I still look on new products or ways of working as a challenge rather than a job, there's even times it's fun

.

fintan

shabbyroad wrote:

in order for me to pay anyone €60 for a job I have to earn €100

(ok it's an approximation but you get the idea)

that's why I don't pay cash - why should I be the mug paying tax and then giving away any consumer rights I have ?

I fully agree!

fintan

davelerave wrote:

customers on domestic work are just as guilty generally (as us tradesmen )offering cash for a discount price

And if you say to them, sorry I can't do that, it would be unfair to all my other customers who have had to pay full price. They will agree and think to themselves what an honest guy you are.

Borzoi

awishawash wrote:

I was just wondering what the story is with paying these blokes cash, no questions asked. Can I ask for a receipt on a cash job without peeing a tradesman off?

Going back quite a number of years, when I was with a previous employer, I was asked (actually that should be told) to go ensure a domestic job was done right, clear the job, and pick up the cash. Now, the firm was run by two partners, one largely silent (the father), one active (the son) - I was under strict instructions to say nothing regarding this particular job to the dad - so I knew the score

So I did what I was asked, handed a large amount of cash, and I think it was because the home owner didn't know me, asked for a receipt, but it was more of a note to say that I'd picked up the dough, in case I fecked off - which given that it was about six months wages was tempting:D So I obliged - but because the firm was really busy, I didn't see my gaffer for a week. I couldn't wait to hand over the responsibility for the cash.