[PR] New €62m order for trains for Sligo-Dublin and Rosslare-Dublin lines

Victor

Wow, they were awfully quiet about this. I presume they were ordered 31st December so as to spent some unspent money on other projects.

New €62m order for trains for Sligo-Dublin and Rosslare-Dublin lines by Press Office

NEW YEAR BOOST FOR ROSSLARE AND SLIGO LINE RAIL CUSTOMERS WITH €62 MILLION ORDER FOR NEW TRAINS ANNOUNCED
BRAND NEW TRAINS NOW ON ORDER FOR EVERY INTERCITY ROUTE
INTERCITY FLEET TO BE MOST MODERN IN EUROPE BY 2008

Extra capacity to be freed up for Commuter routes

The Minister for Transport Martin Cullen TD and CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann Chairman Dr John Lynch have announced that Iarnród Éireann is to purchase 30 more new Intercity railcar carriages, at a cost of €62 million, to complete the transformation of the Intercity fleet.

The new high-spec railcars will be used on the Sligo-Dublin and Rosslare-Dublin lines, bringing customers greater quality, comfort and frequency. The order means new trains are on the way for every single Intercity route on the national radial network.

In total, 217 carriages will be brought into service through 2006, 2007 and 2008, transforming Iarnród Éireann’s Intercity fleet from the oldest in Europe to the most modern.

This represents a total investment of €441 million, funded by the Irish Government under the Transport 21 ten-year infrastructure programme.

The contract has been awarded to Mitsui of Japan, in partnership with Rotem of the Republic of Korea and Tokyu Car Corporation of Japan.

Iarnród Éireann last year ordered 120 Intercity railcars from this consortium for the national network, and have now extended that order for an additional 30 carriages.

The new fleet will allow Iarnród Éireann to transform the Intercity service, offering higher frequency and greater comfort and quality on all routes for record numbers of Intercity customers. They will begin entering service from 2007.

Benefits to customers will include:
- Significantly higher frequency and capacity on all InterCity routes
- Modern on-board comfort standards
- The replacement of outdated fleet across the network; currently, over half the fleet on InterCity services is more than 30 years old
- Improved accessibility for mobility-impaired customers

Features of the InterCity railcar fleet will include:
- Improved accessibility for mobility-impaired customers
- Automatic PA and information display systems
- Fully air-conditioned
- Internal CCTV system for improved security
- Modern catering facilities
- Individual base seating
- Sleek carriage design
- Advanced safety features throughout, to UIC standards

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen TD said of this latest carriage order “This underlines the Government's commitment to rail transport and our determination to fully exploit the potential of our rail resource. Every Intercity route will now have new carriages, making ours the most modern fleet in Europe. This will mean real day-to-day improvements for users and offer additional attractions to those who currently may not choose the train.

We are working to ensure that public transport gets priority and that Irish rail users will have an efficient, people focused service. By connecting each of our daily services with the most modern fleet and delivering on the rail investment outlined in Transport 21, we can complete the transformation of the country's rail network."

CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann Chairman Dr John Lynch said “the Sligo and Rosslare lines now represent the transformation of our network. Our track has been totally upgraded on both, as it has throughout the network. Our signalling has been computerised on the Sligo-Dublin line, with the Rosslare-Dublin line resignalling underway. Now, most importantly for our customers, brand new dedicated Intercity trains are on order for both lines, to the same high standard as those ordered for the rest of our network. There is no more ‘two-tier railway’: we now have the highest standard network for all of our customers, and the highest standard trains on the way.”

Intercity fleet upgrade – timescale

Currently, over half of the Intercity fleet is over 30 years old, the oldest fleet in Europe. Between now and 2008, all of these carriages will be removed, and replaced with brand new trains.

2006: 67 Intercity carriages will enter service on the Cork-Dublin route, delivering an hourly service each way between the two cities.

2007-8: 120 Intercity railcars already ordered, and the additional 30 carriage order announced today (3rd Jan), will enter service across the network, on:

Tralee-Dublin/Cork
Ennis/Limerick-Dublin
Galway-Dublin
Westport-Dublin
Sligo-Dublin (new)
Rosslare-Dublin (new)
Waterford-Dublin

This will lead to frequency improvements as follows:

ROUTE		FREQUENCY

Dublin – Cork		Hourly all day
Dublin – Limerick	Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak – mix of direct 
			and shuttle services to/ from Cork service
Dublin – Galway		Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak
Dublin – Waterford	Every two hours all day
Dublin – Sligo		Every two hours all day
Dublin – Westport	5 services per day  - mix of direct trains and shuttle 
			services Athlone-Westport, connecting to Galway service
Dublin – Tralee		Mix of through services and shuttle service Mallow-
			Tralee connecting to / from Cork service giving an 
			overall 2 hourly service.
Dublin-Rosslare		Additional services to Arklow/Wexford
Branch lines		Additional services

Commuter

A further benefit of this latest order of 30 carriages is for Commuters on some of the busiest lines in the Greater Dublin area. The new order will free up modern railcars currently being used on the Rosslare and Sligo lines to enhance capacity on the Maynooth and Northern commuter lines in Dublin.

MarkoP11

No real suprise that the order was placed its just a bit surprising it was so soon

The order date is mid December since talk of having a full fleet of intercity railcars on the Sligo line started then. The press release had a release date and time, IE have been trying to make themselves look good in the press the last week or so, not much point as we all know at this stage even after 1.3 billion the service ain't getting better and no amount of shinny trains is going to fix the mess

Money appears to be thanks to the NRA not spending there block, for the second time in 3 years added with the 36 million underspend on infrastructure by IE

jd

Dublin-Rosslare Additional services to Arklow/Wexford

I guess they realised people were not happy with the 29000 series. The bit above is interesting-turnaround at wexford back to dublin rather than continuing along the quays to rosslare.

MarkoP11

The additonal services appeared in the 2006 timetable as there are now 5 weekday services to Dublin from Gorey

There may be serious safety issues with the current Sligo and Rosslare suburban railcars which leaves them unsafe for intercity but perfectly safe for suburban which is forcing the situation

Remember only 6 months ago IE where so happy to brain wash Sligo line passengers that there new (second hand actually) trains where the best things ever. The damage is done by now

monument

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen TD said... "We are working to ensure that public transport gets priority"... LOL

Maskhadov

I can't wait to see some pictures of what they will look like outside and inside. Well I guess its good news rather than bad news but IE are offering a poor service in light of the money they got from the government. Journey times need urgent attention and so too does their general service

jd

MarkoP11 wrote:

The additonal services appeared in the 2006 timetable as there are now 5 weekday services to Dublin from Gorey

I know about the improvement in frequency to Gorey-however they are talking about service improvements when the carriages/railcars are delivered.

Previously they had said Wexford/Rosslare would have existing service with additional services for Gorey and Arklow.
from http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/page7and8.pdf

Intercity frequencies
Route Frequency
Dublin–Cork Hourly all day
Dublin–Limerick Hourly – mix of direct and shuttle services from Cork service
Dublin–Galway Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak
Dublin–Waterford Every two hours all day
Dublin–Sligo Every two hours all day
Dublin–Westport Existing through services plus additional shuttle services
Athlone/Westport, connecting with Galway service
Dublin–Tralee Existing through services plus shuttle service every 2 hours
Mallow–Tralee connecting with Cork service
Dublin–Rosslare Existing service plus additional commuter services (Gorey/Arklow)
Branch lines Additional service

Now they are saying existing services (to Rosslare, I assume) with additional services to Arklow/Wexford.

monument

Maskhadov wrote:

I can't wait to see some pictures of what they will look like outside and inside. Well I guess its good news rather than bad news but IE are offering a poor service in light of the money they got from the government. Journey times need urgent attention and so too does their general service

This is some kind of concept image...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Iarnr%C3%B3d_%C3%89irann_advert.jpg

And this is a photo of a photo in the current ad been run by IE in newspapers...
http://gamestoaster.typepad.com/blurredkeys/2006/01/new_irish_inter.html

MarkoP11

Rule one don't trust anything IE say until it actually happens, the most you will get is one more to Dublin as a commuter service arriving eariler that the current one and a later return but that may only run to Bray

dowlingm

I had heard there was a scalding incident to a staff member using the tea trolley on the Sligo 29000s but it wasn't confirmed - if it happened this might have concentrated the mind in terms of acquiring "proper" IC-spec railcars for the route.

Maskhadov

Thanks monument. Nice to see the new intercities trains actually on the track. Dont the just look well I dont know why they just didnt buy more of the same trains (like the one on the track as opposed to one on the billboard)

Is it likley that all these new trains will actually go on the Dublin Belfast line and only a token gesture is made for Sligo and Rosslare (i.e 1 train each)?

MarkoP11

Quite probable as IE have said in the past they would ditch the enterprise coaches if relibility didn't improve and replace them with intercity railcars

The shinny new Cork trains in the earlier photo has a big ugly dirty locomotive on the back they have gone to great lengths to hide in every photo. These coaches where sold first as serving Limerick and Galway as well how quickly that disappeared but the on board map is a laugh just try to find anything north of Athlone its missing as the map was designed for Cork, Limerick and Galway the routes it was meant to serve

Maskhadov

And I dont think there any plans to buy nice new locos that match in with the new trains A re-spray job may help to limit the uglyness factor.

As a long term solution to the Enterprise and the BDC (Belfast Dublin Cork) problem in general I would favour an off the shelf purchase of the German ICE.

All is necessary is the cash, they would come over and do everything for us and be happy about it too since it would be a showcase for them !! They usually get their cost figure right, they build on time and the standards are world class !!

monument

Do you mean diesel ICEs or electrifying the routes? There isn’t much point introducing high-speed trains without upgrading the lines, is this reasonably possible? (I’ve just remember you said long term, but I’ll let the questions stand…)

Maskhadov

Yes it would be in the longer term.

Electrifying the route would be best and of course laying new track to elimiate corners etc. There would also need to be proper segreation and the new track would be have to been the same width as on the continent.

Basically an entire new rail line with all the land purchase, bridges, upgrading of stations, tunnelling etc.

Victor

Maskhadov wrote:

And I dont think there any plans to buy nice new locos that match in with the new trains A re-spray job may help to limit the uglyness factor.

I was in Cork last week. I saw 2 new sets in Inchicore, on the way back I saw one. I passed an orange set that had what looked like a new (2000?) GE loco in the green "go faster" paint job.

MarkoP11

There are 4 sets and 3 spare coaches here as of last week, 2 in Dublin, 2 in Limerick Junction. 18 locomotives are being repainted, however any locomotive can haul the new sets if required (thats not possible with the enterprise coaches) a big ugly faded in serious need of paint style locomotives have already hauled the new coaches, there is simply no vision or branding in IE

Victor

MarkoP11 wrote:

locomotives have already hauled the new coaches

Pushed?

monument

Maskhadov wrote:

Yes it would be in the longer term.

Electrifying the route would be best and of course laying new track to elimiate corners etc. There would also need to be proper segreation and the new track would be have to been the same width as on the continent.

Basically an entire new rail line with all the land purchase, bridges, upgrading of stations, tunnelling etc.

Why not go the full hog then?

MarkoP11

Victor wrote:

Pushed?

Some pull only, but several to be repainted and currently in serious need of a wash have worked in push and pull modes

Compared to the enterprise sets there is no need to have the 201 class engine at the back end for safety and operational reasons since IE ordered specific end coaches with normal couplings this time, sounds technical it just makes life way easier if a breakdown occurs

Maskhadov

Why doesnt IE just go out and buy new locos for the new trains ??? It cant cost that much extra can it??

Even with the go faster strips and paint job the old locos will still look crap.

monument wrote:

Why not go the full hog then?

Because its not in line with what the rest of Europe is doing.

John R

Maskhadov wrote:

Why doesnt IE just go out and buy new locos for the new trains ??? It cant cost that much extra can it??

Nah, sure it's only a railway loco. They can be bought at Blackrock market at the weekends for €8.99. :rolleyes:

Maskhadov wrote:

Even with the go faster strips and paint job the old locos will still look crap.

So millions should be spent on replacing equipment because you think "it looks crap". Sounds like a fantastic use of public money to me.

Perhaps we should apply this asthetic-based system to other areas of the public finances. We could start with the Minister for Finance, let's face it Brian Cowen looks crap. We should replace him with someone better looking, how about one of the westlife boys, they're better looking so they must be better at finance.

Maskhadov

John R wrote:

Nah, sure it's only a railway loco. They can be bought at Blackrock market at the weekends for €8.99. :rolleyes:

Is that what they told you ?? Nah, I think they cost a bit more than that Johnny. Still not as expensive as purchasing all those rail cars and it would really improve journey times for customers

So millions should be spent on replacing equipment because you think "it looks crap". Sounds like a fantastic use of public money to me.

Hey, Johnny, go take some sunday school lessons on how to read eh :rolleyes:

Perhaps we should apply this asthetic-based system to other areas of the public finances. We could start with the Minister for Finance, let's face it Brian Cowen looks crap. We should replace him with someone better looking, how about one of the westlife boys, they're better looking so they must be better at finance.

Lets try our reading skills instead Johnny, maybe we can even get a train service that reduces journeys time :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

Why are IE buying diesel trains that require a loco in push/pull formation. Why can't they just buy a diesel powered train and use it as such?

Virgin Trains use the Voyager and the Super Voyager (tilting version).

MarkoP11

Its got something to do with cost and having a heap of newish kit lying around, its about getting value for money. I've seen the insides of the new Cork trains I've seen the gadgets it pretty cool and the 150 odd railcars have a similar spec interior in fit out

Its cheaper run locomotive haul when you are dealing with longish trains in fuel, maintenance of both equipment and track (A 5 car voyager costs more to run that a 8 coach HST since it eats track) and the passenger experience is better as there is no engine under the floor, its quite standard to have a locomotive on one end, or both, HST, TGV, UK MK3/MK4/Class 87/90/91, Paris suburban, Holland, Germany, once there is a cab at both ends the flexibilty is there

Victor

For us non-experts. Ddoes "push-pull" refer to a train set where the engine is always at one end and there is a control cab at the other end for going in the other direction? How is the locomotive different, is it just that it has more reverse gears?

Are you saying rail cars (an engine every / every second carriage) is harder wearing on track? But wouldn't axle loadings be more evenly balanced (locomotives are allowed a higher axel loading).

Maskhadov, whats this about Sunday School? Do you know what Sunday School is? Do you mean Summer School?

MarkoP11

Push pull is engine one end and a duplicate control console in a cab at the other end, a electrical cable links one to the other, the locomotive is unmodified as it thinks it is coupled to another locomotive (there is a small modification to the brake valves but its the same socket and cable)

A voyager coach tips the scales at close to 60 tons from the info I have so its not light


Basics are

Railcars excellent for short trains, reduced costs, higher frequency where IE seem to want to go
Railcars not so good for long trains unless you wish to split or combine enroute, once you hit 8 coaches you are better with the old fashioned solution

murphaph

Victor wrote:

For us non-experts. Ddoes "push-pull" refer to a train set where the engine is always at one end and there is a control cab at the other end for going in the other direction? How is the locomotive different, is it just that it has more reverse gears?

A diesel-electric locomotive (what IE have) doesn't have gears. It has a large 2-stroke diesel engine running an electric generator. This generator supplies electricity to electric motors at the wheels. You'd need a massive (heavy) and very robust gearbox to handle the 3000HP that a loco engine churns out. Because it uses motors-you just reverse the current flow though the motors and the loco goes the other way. Another advantage of electric traction motors at the wheels is that when the loco is decelerating the motors become generators and the current is diverted to a large resistor network in the roof (cooled by the air flow over it) and the loco requires little/no manual brakes at the wheels (saves wear and tear) as the generators provide the mechanical resistance to slow the engine down.

Maskhadov

Victor wrote:

Maskhadov, whats this about Sunday School? Do you know what Sunday School is? Do you mean Summer School?

I meant school for childern with bad English and Math. I didnt think Johnny understood my post fully.

Victor

Maskhadov wrote:

I meant school for childern with bad English and Math. I didnt think Johnny understood my post fully.

Neither do I and I suspect you were just throwing insults.

Sunday school is for religious education in places that have strictly secular school.

westtip

I really don't know what all this whingeing about CIE is about - never thought I would say it but for a small country of less than 5 million people I think they do a remarkable job and the improvements on the Sligo line are to be welcomed. If you want to pay the kind of prices they pay in the South East of England for commuting i suggest you give it a try. Back in 1998 I was paying 86 sterling a week - out of taxed income for a weekly ticket to Waterloo from Basingstoke (about 45 miles), i thnk today the same ticket is about 105. Mind you the service was nearly a 24 hour service, the last train back from London was into the small hours - my major criticism of CIE is the lack of any service on the Sligo Line after 7 pm. I am sure a late night servie say at 11 pm at least as far as Mulingar would be of value.

John R

Maskhadov wrote:

I meant school for childern with bad English and Math. I didnt think Johnny understood my post fully.

Your post contained one stupid idea (buy new locos) justified by two stupid reasons (they don't cost much and the current ones look crap) that you backed up with stupid personal insults.

BTW personal insults are not allowed, in the unlikely event that your next attempt is successful you might find yourself recieving a ban.

Maskhadov

I didnt like your scarcasm. You could be the one on the end of a ban. You are suppose to attack the post not the poster. Calling me stupid is a personal insult.

I dont think there was anything stupid about buying new locos. It the one single thing which would make the entire service run faster.

I wasnt basing my argument on how they looked . I was just making the observation that the old ones do look crap.

A cost benefit analysis would show up that purchasing locos would be the single biggest factor in improving journey time. Whats stupid about that ?

And Victor, if I were throwing insults what was John R doing ?

John R

Maskhadov wrote:

I didnt like your scarcasm.

That is generally the point of using sarcasm. There are lots of things people will say or do on the internet and out in the big bad world that you will not like, get used to it.

Maskhadov wrote:

You could be the one on the end of a ban. You are suppose to attack the post not the poster. Calling me stupid is a personal insult.

I didn't call you stupid, I called your arguements stupid. That would be the perfect example of attacking the post not the poster.

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont think there was anything stupid about buying new locos.

You may not think so but replacing very expensive machinery that still has 15-20 years useful service left in them for a ridiculous reason like them looking crap is as far as I'm concerned the very essence of stupidity.

Maskhadov wrote:

It the one single thing which would make the entire service run faster.

Firstly you didn't mention anything about that in the original post and secondly you are wrong about that too. The 201 locos are capabale of operating up to and above the highest line speed that exists in the country, replacing them would have no effect on the speed of the service.

Maskhadov wrote:

I wasnt basing my argument on how they looked . I was just making the observation that the old ones do look crap.

Maybe in your head you weren't but the only reason you posted was that they looked crap.

Maskhadov wrote:

A cost benefit analysis would show up that purchasing locos would be the single biggest factor in improving journey time. Whats stupid about that ?

1. You are stating as a fact something that is just a wild supposition on your part based on a scant knowledge of the subject.
2. It is incorrect.
3. It suggests that you don't really understand what a Cost benefit analysis is. In that case it would calculate how much money replacing locomotives would cost in relation to the estimated reduction in journey time that would result. It would compare that to the relative figures for other measures that could be applied to achieve the same results.

FYI the most cost effective way of improving journey times would be the reduction of severe localised speed restrictions, the uprating of long sections to the line maximum and the reduction in station stops.

If you don't want your posts to be torn apart then how about you go and find some facts to back up your positions. You suggested replacing the locos but you don't know how much one costs, how long it takes to manufacture and commission, how much of a loss disposing of the current fleet would cost, how a new loco could speed up the service, what role secondary fctors play in the speed of the service, what effect if any a "crap looking" loco would have on passenger numbers, etc.

Maskhadov wrote:

And Victor, if I were throwing insults what was John R doing ?

Trying to work out what religious education has to do with any of this.
Something to do with believing in something completely without a shread of evidence I reckon.

Maskhadov

John R wrote:

That is generally the point of using sarcasm. There are lots of things people will say or do on the internet and out in the big bad world that you will not like, get used to it.

Well you know what they say about sarcasm.. it the lowest form of wit.

I didn't call you stupid, I called your arguements stupid. That would be the perfect example of attacking the post not the poster.

Thats actually true.

You may not think so but replacing very expensive machinery that still has 15-20 years useful service left in them for a ridiculous reason like them looking crap is as far as I'm concerned the very essence of stupidity.

what about the customer and reducing journey times ?? After all they are rolling out an intercity motorway and bus car journeys are coming down all the time. I.E could sell the old locos on.

Firstly you didn't mention anything about that in the original post and secondly you are wrong about that too. The 201 locos are capabale of operating up to and above the highest line speed that exists in the country, replacing them would have no effect on the speed of the service.

They are capable of 100mph not 125mph AFAIK.

Maybe in your head you weren't but the only reason you posted was that they looked crap.

Correct I didnt state that. However I didnt mean to imply that I.E should get new locos to simply match in.

1. You are stating as a fact something that is just a wild supposition on your part based on a scant knowledge of the subject.
2. It is incorrect.
3. It suggests that you don't really understand what a Cost benefit analysis is. In that case it would calculate how much money replacing locomotives would cost in relation to the estimated reduction in journey time that would result. It would compare that to the relative figures for other measures that could be applied to achieve the same results.

1. Im not pretending to have a expert knowledge of the subject,
2. I disagree
3. I have a good understanding of Cost Benefit Analysis. Sell the old locos on, improve journey times with new locos and customer satifaction. New locos will have to bought sometime anyway, so why not now?

FYI the most cost effective way of improving journey times would be the reduction of severe localised speed restrictions, the uprating of long sections to the line maximum and the reduction in station stops.

Why dont you check out http://www.platform11.org/ there is a page there somewhere on reducing journey times. Of course it wouldnt take a rocket scientest to figure out if you could take the bends of the the rail, introduce tilting trains, faster locos on the service you would defintely reduce journey times. I.E missed a golden oppurntunity to purchase tilting trains so the only two is left is locos and track straighten.

If you don't want your posts to be torn apart then how about you go and find some facts to back up your positions. You suggested replacing the locos but you don't know how much one costs, how long it takes to manufacture and commission, how much of a loss disposing of the current fleet would cost, how a new loco could speed up the service, what role secondary fctors play in the speed of the service, what effect if any a "crap looking" loco would have on passenger numbers, etc.

I wouldnt exactly call that torn apart. I made a simple post about how the existing locos look crap. I.E.must think likewise since they are doing their best to hide them. Im not pretending to be the expert.

I still think purchasing new locos would the biggest singular improvement on the entire rail network.

Trying to work out what religious education has to do with any of this.
Something to do with believing in something completely without a shread of evidence I reckon.

I meant more eduction, I thought you were being childish. I have no time with your scarcam.

Sarsfield

Maskhadov wrote:

improve journey times with new locos

You appear to have missed the bit where it was pointed out that new locos won't make a difference.

The max speed on any stretch of line in Ireland is 100mph. A 201 will do that (and probably more). So it doesn't matter if you buy locos capable of twice the speed of a 201, they will still be limited to 100mph.

To reduce journey times you need to raise average speed. You don't do this by introducing a new maximum speed of 120mph (and new 120mph trains) for a mile or 2 of track. You eliminate the slowest bits of track first.

It's speed restrictions, not maximum speeds that determine journey times. Which is why, even though the max speed on the Cork line is 100mph, it takes a lot more than 1hour40 (its 165 miles to Cork) to get there. And, each stop adds about 5 minutes to a journey (taking into account deceleration, dwell and acceleration).

Maskhadov

A 201 is limited to 100mph. It cant go any faster and Im pretty certain of that. Please correct me if im wrong, someone from P11 will know.

The other thing about track, well if you can straighten the track then brilliant. However you can still go the 125pmh on the straight bits and then drop down to whatever speed. That willl reduce overall journey times.

Sarsfield

Maskhadov wrote:

However you can still go the 125pmh on the straight bits

You can't! The MAXIMUM speed allowed on the Irish network is 100mph. Furthermore, achieving higher speeds costs more money as the track needs to be constructed to tighter tolerances (cost grows exponentially I believe). So upgrading 10 miles of 75mph track to 100mph costs far less than an upgrade from 100 to 125. And it delivers a greater reduction in journey time!

10 miles @ 75mph takes 8 minutes
10 miles @ 100mph takes 6 minutes a saving of 2 miniutes over 75mph
10 miles @ 125mph takes 4.8 minutes a saving of only 1.2 minutes over 100mph

I hope my maths is correct :v:

This doesn't take into account the time to decelerate and accelerate into and out of speed restrictions (which is significant).

Elimination of speed restrictions is therefore easier technically, cheaper and more beneficial. And doesn't require a parallel investment in faster motive power (and rolling stock? - I don't know what the theoretical max speed of the new CAF stock is)

Maskhadov

Im sure all your sums are correct.

However IMHO I think CWR is capable of holding 125mph and the 100mph speed limit is self imposed. I still think improving the top speed in areas is easier (although not the better option) rather than purchasing land and track straightening etc.

maxheadroom

Maskhadov wrote:

Im sure all your sums are correct.

However IMHO I think CWR is capable of holding 125mph and the 100mph speed limit is self imposed. I still think improving the top speed in areas is easier (although not the better option) rather than purchasing land and track straightening etc.

The problem isn't CWR per se, its more to do with spacing of sleepers, quality / durability of the rail itself, track damage at 100mph vs 125mph. I'm sure some of the (P11 / other railway) experts can give you some technical info if you ask nicely Basically, the track has been laid to a specification suitable for 100mph operation, but not 125mph operation.

BendiBus

Maskhadov wrote:

Im sure all your sums are correct.

However IMHO I think CWR is capable of holding 125mph and the 100mph speed limit is self imposed. I still think improving the top speed in areas is easier (although not the better option) rather than purchasing land and track straightening etc.

You appear to think that speed restrictions are based on the straightness of the track. This is not correct. Speed restrictions are based on track condition (gauge, rail & sleeper condition etc.) and surrounding environment (visibility, level crossings etc.)

Purchasing land and track straightening is not required to eliminate most speed restrictions and achieve higher speeds.

MarkoP11

A 201 class locomotive as a design service speed of 102 mph, and I've been on board at 102-3 mph. The new CDE/CAF coaches and the existing MK3 coaches have a design service speed of 125 mph

You need considerably stronger track and tighter tolerances at 125 than at 100 there are many many miles of 90 mph limited track that was once 100 mph. There are also clearance requirements so the track might be fine but the spacing is too tight to allow for 100 mph + running

Speed limits are based on

Alignment curves etc
Signalling arrangements, spacing etc
Certain level crossing types impose speed limits
Platform width comes into play above 100 mph
Stopping distances
Structural strength of bridges to take the dynamic loading
Track condition

Most curves have speed restrictions for passenger comfort and maintenance reasons, you can go around much faster but it becomes rather unpleasant and high speed operation stresses the track to a much higher extent

You could chop 5-10 minutes off Dublin Cork by simply fixing the permanent speed restrictions at Portarlington (100-90-60-30-90), Ballybrophy (90-70-90), Lisduff (90-70-90) and Limerick Junction (90-25??-90)

Portarlington is going back up to 60 mph, Ballybrophy, Lisduff and Limerick Junction could go up to 90 mph with fairly minimal work. There are works planned to bring the line up from 90 mph to 100 mph

Bogger77

Limerick Junction and Ballybrophy both need major redesigns of track layout.

MarkoP11

Ballybrophy requires the replacement of wooden sleepers and routine switch and crossing work, normal maintenence renewal not a specific investment. The layout is very simple no redesign unless you want to eliminate the station

Limerick Junction is quite straight forward, like for like renewal would lift speeds dramactically but they are holding off until a more grandose plan is dreamt up, you used to be able to fly through