Bin Not emptied - entitled to a refund?

Sleipnir

Just wondering what the story is if you put your bin out and it's only partially emptied (i.e. about a quarter of it)
Can I claim that as it wasn't emptied, I shouldn't have to pay for it being emptied?

seamus

Why wasn't it emptied? Assuming they're using a standard wheelie bin truck, then the only thing that would cause it to not empty would be having too much stuff jammed in, preventing it from coming out.

Hagar

Fair point but if you're paying to have a 200 litre bin emptied surely you're paying for the full 200 litres not a bin half full of air to make emptying easier. The council worker unloading the bin surely noticed that the bin was heavy and had not been emptied but didn't bother his/her arse to do the job properly.

ButtermilkJack

seamus wrote:

Why wasn't it emptied? Assuming they're using a standard wheelie bin truck, then the only thing that would cause it to not empty would be having too much stuff jammed in, preventing it from coming out.

Yes that's what I would have thought. If they tip it over the edge on the truck then they cant control how much comes out (ie: they cant decide to only let quarter come out). As seamus said, it either got stuck, or...

...and here's my imagination kicking in...

...the top blew open overnight and the top quarter blew onto the street. The bin tag also blew off, so when they arrived, they saw rubbish on the street (which the cleaned up) and a bin with no tag (which the didn't empty)

How do I have this amount of free-time first thing in the morning

masterK

I'd say you'd have some job claiming it wasn't empied. I can just imagine you calling your local council and being transferred from person to person until you eventually just give up.

As has already been said there was most probably something holding the remainder of the rubbish in position when it was being empied and the binman didn't bother his backside to get it out, same as the way they just throw your bin to the side of the road whereever they are standing after it's been emptied.

hunny

I had this problem too. But the county council would not refund the money as they said the bin was too full and that the bin men only will try once to empty it, so if all the rubbish doesn't fall into the truck first time they just leave the bin half full!! Even though you pay the full charge.:mad:

masterK

hunny wrote:

I had this problem too. But the county council would not refund the money as they said the bin was too full and that the bin men only will try once to empty it, so if all the rubbish doesn't fall into the truck first time they just leave the bin half full!! Even though you pay the full charge.:mad:

Typical of our fine quality public servants, I'm sure there must be an entry in their terms of employlment that states "if it's too much hassle to do, then don't do it"

seamus

I do recall reading some fine print somewhere about how it's not their responsibility if the bin doesn't empty due to overpacking. You'll probably also find some policy somewhere that says that reaching into bins to touch the rubbish (i.e. to free up the blockage) is not part of their job...

daymobrew

hunny wrote:

I had this problem too. But the county council would not refund the money as they said the bin was too full and that the bin men only will try once to empty it, so if all the rubbish doesn't fall into the truck first time they just leave the bin half full!! Even though you pay the full charge.:mad:

I had the opposite experience with Fingal County Council - they said to put it out again with a note that it hadn't been completely emptied. Next time it was all taken.

MorningStar

It is all to do with how you manage your waste. The responsibity is on you to make sure your bin is not compacted to the extent it can't be emptied by the equipment.
The had this on Joe Duffy last year and it is how the matter is seen by the councils. Ithink you can see the logic on both sides but when you consider emplyee rights and safety the responsibility clearily moves back to the person who filled the bin.
I see the point about being charged for an incomplete service but the responsibility is yours. Beleive it or not the recomendation was to grease or oil the inner of the bin.

Cucullan

Yeah isn't it great craic jumping on the bin or even better getting a fat friend to jump on it just to squeeze every last carton into it and then shock horror it won't come out when its been emptied........
You can't realy expect the bin collector to reach into every bin that doesn't empty and free up stuck rubbish, they have a dirty enough job already without sticking their heads into the bins. Your best bet might be to ring them and say it wasn't fully emptied last week and is it ok if I leave out a bag with the bin this week as your bin is full.

Sleipnir

seamus wrote:

I do recall reading some fine print somewhere about how it's not their responsibility if the bin doesn't empty due to overpacking. You'll probably also find some policy somewhere that says that reaching into bins to touch the rubbish (i.e. to free up the blockage) is not part of their job...

That's just the thing though. It wasn't overpacked. (Although some people here seems to have peered into my bin on the week in question and arrived at a different conclusion)

The reason I know this is that I put the bin out again the next week without jiggling about with the rubbish or removing anything, and it emptied fine.
I also put two more bags in on top of the rubbish.

The "It's not our resonsibility if it doesn't empty" just doesn't wash me me.
I pay DCC 5 euro to empty my bin, they half empty it but I still have to pay 5 euro?!?
If I pay for a 16 inch pizza and I only get a 9 inch, should I still have to pay for the 16 inch?
Should I photograph the contents of my bin every week?

parsi

For crying out loud - it was a once-off occasion. Get over it.

Remember if you want to go down the route of being pernickerty over a once-off incident next thing you know they'll be closely looking at your rubbish to ensure that only permissible items are in the bin. Grass cuttings are a prime example (in Cork) of sttuff that's not supposed to be dumped but everyone does it...

Sleipnir

I don't like paying for a service I didn't recieve. Odd ,I know.

So, I should say nothing so you can still dump your grass cutting in the bin?
Ah, no.

Gegerty

Interesting. I thought they weigh the bin before they empty it and then weigh it after it was emptied and the difference minus the weight of the bin was what you pay for. Or was that just something they did at the start to calculate the weight of the actual bin?

parsi

So you dislike paying for a service you claim you didn't receive so much so that you waited for the binmen to empty the bin on the following week and then complained on boards ?

Maybe you should have rung the council on the day it happened and showed them the bin...

..odd, I know.

Raytown Rocks

parsi wrote:

For crying out loud - it was a once-off occasion. Get over it.

Remember if you want to go down the route of being pernickerty over a once-off incident next thing you know they'll be closely looking at your rubbish to ensure that only permissible items are in the bin. Grass cuttings are a prime example (in Cork) of sttuff that's not supposed to be dumped but everyone does it...

Sorry But have to disagree here.:)
The op like a lot of us is paying for a service.( bin collection)
This service was not correctly carried out.
The op has stated the bin was not overpacked/stuffed so therfore did nothing wrong.
I think you should chase them up for a free collection, OK its only €5 but if
everyone who has had the same problem said nothing think of the money being made by the council on this issue alone.

Chef

Sleipnir

As you seem to think that I need to explain myself to you Parsi...

a.) The bin was half-emptied on the 27th of December. For some reason, I assumed that the council offices would be closed on that day. I think I'm probably right on that score too.

b.) You'll see in my original post that I was not "complaining" to members of boards, I asked
"Can I claim that as it wasn't emptied, I shouldn't have to pay for it being emptied?"
I was looking for clarification or the knowledge/experience of other boards members who have been in the same situation.

Just to further clear up the awful confusion I seem to have caused you, I'm here to see if any member of boards has experience claiming the above so I can then decide if it's worth bothering to write to Dublin City Council.

I don't think I can make this any clearer but if you want to meet for a pint, I'll take minutes of the meeting and then have it laminated.
A gift from me to you.

Sleipnir

Gegerty wrote:

Interesting. I thought they weigh the bin before they empty it and then weigh it after it was emptied and the difference minus the weight of the bin was what you pay for. Or was that just something they did at the start to calculate the weight of the actual bin?

I don' think all councils do pay-by-weight yet. They will, but not yet.

Raytown Rocks

Hi Sleipnir

In reply to your original question it's never happened to me so I cant really help on that score.
From a personal point of view I think you SHOULD follow up with the council, I for one would be interested to see what they say.
I personally would be of the same opinion as your good self,
Its my money, Im paying for a service, do it right and I'm happy, do it wrong expect a call from me to express my dis-satisfaction. I rekon more people should do the same if it were to happen to them.

My two cents anyways....

Good luck

Chef

parsi

I don't feel you've any need to explain and sorry if somehow I've touched a nerve.

But you appear to be worked up about it. If so then I would have thought that the first thing you'd do when you saw it wasn't emptied would be to pull out the phone book and ring them while the case was hot (so the speak) and the bin 3/4 full.

I'm sure the members of Boards have great experience in this matter and will point out that whilst you can complain away its very hard to do it if you haven't the bin in its offending state. Otherwise we could all go complain once a month to the Corpo and say our bin wasn't emptied the week before last.

TBH - the time to complain is when the incident happens, then go along to boards and see if anyone else was in the same boat and gather ammunition to use whenever the council respond to your complaint.

As regards about meeting for a pint - it's your shout so you can choose the pub....

Gegerty

Sleipnir wrote:

I don' think all councils do pay-by-weight yet. They will, but not yet.

Ah, ok the post makes sense now

Santa Claus

a.) The bin was half-emptied on the 27th of December. For some reason, I assumed that the council offices would be closed on that day. I think I'm probably right on that score too.

Bin Lorry depot would have been open (as the lorry came from there that morning) so the thing would have been to ring them and they may have sent someone out to check (highly unlikely though).

rsynnott

chef wrote:

The op has stated the bin was not overpacked/stuffed so therfore did nothing wrong.

His basis for deciding that, though, seems to be that the bin was emptied successfully on the second try. This means little or nothing; it could have been loosened the first time.

Hagar

So a second attempt to empty it on the first visit would have been sucessful then?

rsynnott

Hagar wrote:

So a second attempt to empty it on the first visit would have been sucessful then?

Indeed (unless he messed with it before next collection). You are not, however, paying your local authority to spend ten minutes shaking your bin around.

Hagar

Presumably they are being paid to empty the bin.
If it takes 30 secs or 2 mins they should empty it.
If they don't empty it they are just not doing their job.
If they don't want the job quit and let someone who will do it properly get on with it.

rsynnott

Hagar wrote:

Presumably they are being paid to empty the bin.
If it takes 30 secs or 2 mins they should empty it.
If they don't empty it they are just not doing their job.
If they don't want the job quit and let someone who will do it properly get on with it.

The idea being, then, that the local authorities should spend more money on more lorries for the benefit of people who overload their bins?

Hagar

How do you overload a bin?
It has a specific volume, once the lid closes properly you have not exceeded the volume allocated to you by the council.

rsynnott

Hagar wrote:

How do you overload a bin?
It has a specific volume, once the lid closes properly you have not exceeded the volume allocated to you by the council.

Assuming that one of the automatic lorries was used (they seem to be fairly standard now) I think the definition of overloading in this case might be reasonably said to be where not all rubbish falls out during the automated emptying cycle.

Hagar

I don't agree, failure to empty followed by failure to make a further attempt is just laziness not overloading.

The pushing back of an almost full bin is not automated. It is done by a council employee. He knew the bin was still un-emptied but did nothing about it. His discresion in this cannot be overlooked as he makes the decision before wheeling it to the truck as to whether or not it is overfilled as per his working instructions. ie if the lid won't close it is deemed to be overfull and he does not have to empty it ergo if the lid is closed it is not overfull and he must empty it. Empty being the important word here.

rsynnott

Would you prefer, then, that the bin charge go up to accommodate people who over-fill their bins? Because inevitably, such accommodation would require more time taken per bin, therefore more employees and more lorries.

Hagar

Why do you keep up the "overfill" mantra?
If the lid is closed properly then the bin is not overfilled. End of story.

You are only deluding yourself if you think putting up the bin charges will improve the service, it won't, because the same guys with the same attitude will still appear and give the same shi1tty service they are giving now.

If you are just looking for someone to wind up you are wasting your time on me. I don't really give a flying fukk. I live in a country where the bins are fully emptied every night and then disinfected.

I pay for a service and I get it. You pay for a service and you don't get it. So pay more is your solution...

rsynnott

Hagar wrote:

You are only deluding yourself if you think putting up the bin charges will improve the service, it won't, because the same guys with the same attitude will still appear and give the same shi1tty service they are giving now.

No, I'm saying the opposite. If you want to improve the service (to empty bins which gravity will not empty) you'll have to pay more.

Hagar

Before you start handing out more money remember what the service was like before the charges were levied and try to quantify the improvement in service since then. I think you'll find no change. They still just take away your waste. Or at least should do.

Victor

Hagar, I understand how you feel, once I was disposing of some unused concrete and not only did the not empty the bin, but they broke the bin aswell. I don't care if it weight 500kg, they should have emptied it.

Hagar

That's hardly normal domestic waste, is it?

I'm going to look for a nice soft wall to bang my head against. I'll leave you to it.

Litcagral

Victor wrote:

Hagar, I understand how you feel, once I was disposing of some unused concrete and not only did the not empty the bin, but they broke the bin aswell. I don't care if it weight 500kg, they should have emptied it.

Victor, the last thing the local authority wants are injury claims from it's binmen caused by trying to pull down excessively heavy bins. They would not therefore be permitted by the council to do it. They are under no obligation to take building waste anyway. The bin belongs to the council - if they break it they will replace it if requested.

Provided my bin was not stuffed to the extent that it wouldn't budge, and it wasn't emptied properly, I would make a polite call to the local depot and explain the situation. It could have been a misunderstanding etc. I've no doubt that they would send a complimentary bin tag in the post. It's all about having the right approach.

Victor

:v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v: :v:

parsi

Hagar wrote:

That's hardly normal domestic waste, is it?

I'm going to look for a nice soft wall to bang my head against. I'll leave you to it.

Is that the sound of something going straight over your head ? ;-)

Is disinfection of bins common in France ? We usually holiday in Brittany and I have to admit that whilst I have seen regular binlifts in some locations I've never seen (or smelt) disinfected bins...

Hagar

parsi wrote:

Is that the sound of something going straight over your head ? ;-)

Is disinfection of bins common in France ? We usually holiday in Brittany and I have to admit that whilst I have seen regular binlifts in some locations I've never seen (or smelt) disinfected bins...

No nothing went over my head, I just wasn't expecting Victor to come in with his big spoon and start stirring it just when I thought I was starting to get my point across against immeasurable odds.

The bins are definitely disinfected every day. It's a must in summer with the heat and flies etc. The binman doesn't do this himself, the guardian does it, but like I said it's included in my local charges. In the village nearby the bins are rinsed out but not disinfected but I don't know what their charges cover. It can vary from area to area.

MorningStar

Hagar wrote:

Why do you keep up the "overfill" mantra?
If the lid is closed properly then the bin is not overfilled. End of story.
.

If the bin didn't empty it must have been over filled.

You may think if the lid closes that is enough but you don't make the rules. It doesn't really matter how you feel. The terms are stated and your simple reading of what the service is doesn't make much difference.

The liabilty and dangers of waste can not be understated so the employee rights are more imporatant than somebody saving money on waste.

Hagar

Congratulations Morningstar, after encountering you on various threads and reading your antagonistic views on others I'm granting you the honour of being the one and only person to make my ignore list. Please feel free to reciprocate.

betterthanyou

daymobrew wrote:

I had the opposite experience with Fingal County Council - they said to put it out again with a note that it hadn't been completely emptied. Next time it was all taken.

same thing happened to me and they said they would put a note on my account as i pay buy the year and it would be deduced off the next bill

parsi

Hagar wrote:

The bins are definitely disinfected every day. It's a must in summer with the heat and flies etc. The binman doesn't do this himself, the guardian does it, but like I said it's included in my local charges. In the village nearby the bins are rinsed out but not disinfected but I don't know what their charges cover. It can vary from area to area.

Well they certainly don't do it in St Briac - maybe I should act like a foreigner and tell them what to do ;-)

It's an excellent idea though.

The Bollox

ButtermilkJack wrote:

Yes that's what I would have thought. If they tip it over the edge on the truck then they cant control how much comes out (ie: they cant decide to only let quarter come out). As seamus said, it either got stuck, or...

...and here's my imagination kicking in...

...the top blew open overnight and the top quarter blew onto the street. The bin tag also blew off, so when they arrived, they saw rubbish on the street (which the cleaned up) and a bin with no tag (which the didn't empty)

How do I have this amount of free-time first thing in the morning

dude, you really should get to know your hand better! give you something constructive to do!

Victor

You will be billed for the weight (NIL) and the collection attempt (whatever) so you are not being done over.

ambro25

Sorry for dredging the thread, but MorningStar's at it again in my own.

So, can I please ask the OP (or Victor) how/when/etc if you obtained the service and/or refund (or 'credit note' for the next collection), as I've just had the exact same problem (South Dublin Council area), and -the short version of it is- Environmental Services have sent me packing...

RainyDay

Sleipnir wrote:

Just wondering what the story is if you put your bin out and it's only partially emptied (i.e. about a quarter of it)
Can I claim that as it wasn't emptied, I shouldn't have to pay for it being emptied?

Given that the emptying process is entirely automated and not subject to human intervention, I'd love to hear your opinion as to why it didn't empty? The binman just rolls the bin onto the hoist. The hoist lifts it up and lets it empty - so why did the emptying not work with your bin?

Victor

ambro25 wrote:

So, can I please ask the OP (or Victor) how/when/etc if you obtained the service and/or refund (or 'credit note' for the next collection), as I've just had the exact same problem (South Dublin Council area), and -the short version of it is- Environmental Services have sent me packing...

As I understand it you are billed under two headings - the collection service and the weight collected (start weight less finish weight). They provided the first part and aren't billing you for the second.