Perceptions about Irishness

casanova_kid

Don't know if this is the right forum but you can move it otherwise.
There is a perception among foreigners that Irish people are great and friendly when you meet them but they never let you get too close. This would be in contrast to Dutch or German people who after talking with them for one night would count you as life long friends.
Do you agree with this perception? Is it a good thing? Do we as a nation hide behind a cloak of friendly small talk when it comes to talking to foreigners?

NoDayBut2Day

I think that's just people in general; we're all like that to a certain extent. Most people are nice, but some are wary about being really open or "taking off the mask" so to speak. I don't think it's an ethnic thing..

rubadub

I think it is quite prejudiced. It reminds me of a guy I know who always comments on women, like "spanish birds are mad for it", "american ones have you talking all night and you get nowhere", "german girls love to give BJ's". But he is basing the whole notion on single foreign girls and then presuming they are all the same! crazy logic.

I remember the same happening in school. "all the girls in loretto are sluts" "all girls in Her Lady's are tight bitches", again based on 1 or 2 girls they met, as though there was an entrance exam in the schools making sure only whores/nuns got in

OMcGovern

There is a perception of the Irish being easy going alright.
"Keeping people at a distance" ? I'd say yes.

Everyone has their inner circle and outer circle of friends.
I'd suggest that the inner circle has a finite size, and once it's full, it's hard to let others in. Especially in modern day lifestyle, where freetime is at a premium.

Also, I'd put forward the idea that most people want very similar people to themselves in their inner circle. This isn't racist, just shared interests and experiences. Eg. young married couple want young married couples as close friends, cos they probably have been through similar problems etc.
You also feel much more at ease with someone you can predict, so you trust people "like you" easily....

regards,
Owen

seamus

OMcGovern wrote:

Everyone has their inner circle and outer circle of friends.
I'd suggest that the inner circle has a finite size, and once it's full, it's hard to let others in. Especially in modern day lifestyle, where freetime is at a premium.

I wouldn't say it has a finite size, just that people in general require quite a long time to consider someone in their inner circle. As time goes on, some people in the "inner circle" are seen less, and so become less good friends, while you get to know other people better and they go into your inner circle. In general, those you'd consider to be good friends, would also tend to be friends of eachother, as it's next to impossible to maintain an "inner circle" of friends who are strangers to eachother. This is probably why it seems as though the inner circle is finite - new people must integrate with the whole group (or a subgroup of your inner circle), not just yourself.

Also, I'd put forward the idea that most people want very similar people to themselves in their inner circle. This isn't racist, just shared interests and experiences. Eg. young married couple want young married couples as close friends, cos they probably have been through similar problems etc.
You also feel much more at ease with someone you can predict, so you trust people "like you" easily....

Well, perhaps I'm the exception in that regard. No-one I'd consider to be a really good friend is even remotely like me, and none of them are anything like each other either. I wouldn't say they're good friends because they share interests - quite the opposite; each brings a new perspective and interesting information to the group.

When we were younger though definitely we shared interests - the foundation of any friendship tends to be a shared activity/interest.

Setun

I've never really had that problem, but I'm only speaking from a few times I've been on holidays. I've always got on great with foreigners, but have never bothered myself to keep up a friendship with anyone.

It's hard to say if it's a good or a bad thing, it depends on yourself really.

ionapaul

rubadub wrote:

I think it is quite prejudiced. It reminds me of a guy I know who always comments on women, like "spanish birds are mad for it", "american ones have you talking all night and you get nowhere", "german girls love to give BJ's". But he is basing the whole notion on single foreign girls and then presuming they are all the same! crazy logic.

I remember the same happening in school. "all the girls in loretto are sluts" "all girls in Her Lady's are tight bitches", again based on 1 or 2 girls they met, as though there was an entrance exam in the schools making sure only whores/nuns got in

Ahh, but the ability to generalise is in fact an instrinsic mental process and an important life skill! Those early humans who generalised 'all snakes are to be avoided', even though not all are dangerous to us, probably left more decendants than those who didn't generalise with regard to snakes. Not every man walking down a dark alley with a scowl and holding a knife is planning to mug me, but I certainly will generalise in this case and avoid any such man. If I had met 10 Corkonians and 8 of the 10 had slapped me in the face, wouldn't it be abnormal for me not to generalise that Corkonians are an agressive bunch?

On topic, I lived abroad for years and never got that perception from my foreign friends, all expected (generalised, if you will ) that I would be open and friendly. I'm sure they were disappointed when they discovered I had a heart as cold as ice and was as humourless as a German accountant.

Yes that sounds pretty accurate. A lot of foreign people I know who have lived here have said Irish people were 'fake' or 'superficial' and I have to say I agree to an extent. Loads of people seem friendly and jovial at first but it's nothing but a mask. They'll say hi, how are you and make small talk but are not interested in being your friend. A prof at college said that a lot of Erasmus students found the Irish great at first but soon realised it was near impossible to actually make friends with people. Not to mention the back stabbing and bitching - there is a huge tendancy to be nice to people's faces and then slag them off. I've never been able to stand that in people.

Most of my class are French or Spanish and it's the opposite problem. They come across as unfriendly feckers, don't even bother saying hello. You have to make all the effort, but if you do it pays off in the end. They start off really frosty and get warmer and friendlier as they get to know you. There's a French girl in my class that's been there for 3 months and is only just starting to say hello to people. In Ireland she would be written off as a snobby bitch but she's not a horrible girl, just really wary of new people.

I couldn't say which is 'better' or 'worse', I dislike the fakeness of Irish people but the friendly banter is nice when you're around college, etc, and it does make it easier to meet people.

fischerspooner

Yes on a whole, from my experience, people in Ireland are friendly to a certain extent but would never invite you into their social circle and don't seem as interested in meeting new people as people do in other countries. In Canadian cities I could go to bars on my own all the time and people would ask me to join them (blokes and girls) every time I went out. That would NEVER happen here in Dublin. My girlfriend has lived here for 2 years and has made no Irish friends (except for my friends), and she is exceptionally friendly. She says that Irish people are lovely and have always been nice, but the people (women in particular) don't want to know you.

AARRRGH

Irish people are friendly. I'm just back from France and the people I was with (French) thought I was mad because I was talking to people in the niteclubs we went too!!

I think "foreigners" tend to stick to themselves more than we do.

On a more negative note about Irish percecptions abroad, the French think Irish men are smelly... (seriously)

Scarinae

Well this is slightly off the topic of friendliness, but it's still on topic about perceptions - every time people find out that I hate potatoes they exclaim "But you're Irish!". I mean, why should I like potatoes just because I'm Irish?! I know Irish people have a strong history of eating them but that's not necessarily because they particularly like them

casanova_kid

Fishie wrote:

Well this is slightly off the topic of friendliness, but it's still on topic about perceptions - every time people find out that I hate potatoes they exclaim "But you're Irish!". I mean, why should I like potatoes just because I'm Irish?! I know Irish people have a strong history of eating them but that's not necessarily because they particularly like them

Yes, it is a bit off topic, you've sort of annoyed me now.

cordelia

This is a good topic.
I'm American and a pretty friendly person overall. I had a terrible time making friends when I first moved to Ireland. Seemed to be easy enough to meet guys (yeah, yeah, foreign girl :rolleyes: ). Irish girls, however, were almost impossible to develop a friendship with beyond casual workmates. They were never rude or cold, just not interested. Eventually I did make some good friendships with Irish women, but it took a long time. Many of them were the girlfriends of male mates of mine! To this day, of my Irish friends anyway, I still have more male (and, yes, friends!) than I do female. I have many female friends that are foreign (and, no, I'm not fixing any of you lot up with them ).
The Irish do have a wonderful, friendly manner to them with strangers. It also seems to me that there is another layer that's harder to get to, be it because of shyness or reserve, or simply a preference for similarity. Irish people just really love other Irish people! Once you get through that veneer you've a friend for life, but it's certainly a struggle to get there sometimes.

Setun

I suppose it's a very hard thing for myself to say as I am Irish, I have no "outside perspective", but that viewpoint is an interesting one Cordelia. Is it, as I think others have already said, just a fact of being outside their regular social circle or is it also because they're of a foreign nationality?

the_menace

cordelia wrote:

I have many female friends that are foreign (and, no, I'm not fixing any of you lot up with them ).

Awwwww