schools rugby

Eazzzy

If you are someone who played rugby at school level, do you think schools rugby of today is too laid back or being pushed passed the limit.Maybe you feel coaches are too soft. I play rugby at junior level and wondered if much has changed.

spanner

I played section A rugby (which we won out) and their was no constiently among the teams, we could play a very weak team from new ross and then a really hard team like st davids. and obivously the big boys in section B would just blow us away, with their skill level, fitness and strength

I dont think its laid back just a problem encountered by international rugby, it
lacks consistancy

Snickers Man

Is it true that players in all the senior teams of the major rugby schools are encouraged to take creatine?

Now Creatine is a legal substance but I would be loth to pump young lads full of it. Let them grow naturally I say.

daveirl

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RuggieBear

But to consume it in such large quantaties is hardly tho is it?

Tbh, i believe the only danger from creatine is that it puts pressure on the kidneys from extra urination but Dave might know more about that being fitness mod...

daveirl

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b2p

I think that the top schools have to deal with a lot of pressue, especially with all the media coverage in the papers and on T.V. At that level individuals and teams are expected to perform so the result is that they train a lot to reach this standard. People might say its too much but if your body can hack it and your prepared to do it, well then there's no problem.

In my own case I was at a section B school St Andrews (left last year) and there to be honest there was very little pressure, we just enjoyed playin. Although the seniord went on a bit of a run in our own cup and we played Belvo in the section C who, of course, won the cup. And we had a very talented juniors who won their section B cup so the even within our own school the bar has been raised.

Amz

RuggieBear wrote:

But to consume it in such large quantaties is hardly tho is it?

Tbh, i believe the only danger from creatine is that it puts pressure on the kidneys from extra urination but Dave might know more about that being fitness mod...

Most of the people who take creatine at say schools rugby level wouldn't be taking the correct amount to gain maximum benefit. It can and will put pressure on the kidneys and not to put too fine a point on it, they're just pissing most of it away. The body can only handle a certain amount of the stuff, excess is expelled. Pretty expensive stuff to be piddling away like that.

There's not enough education out there about creatine, when and how to use it and how to get maximum benefit from it.

It can be pretty good if used appropriately. I just think that a lot of these young fellas hear about this great stuff that'll bulk them up and expect it to change their lives overnight.

scuba steve

i played Munster Junior Cup the year before last and Senior Cup last year and playing some tems, they took it very seriouslt about it. Wed do trainin once or twice a week, other schools would do 3/4 trainings a week (which I would have prefered) doing weights and actual playing on a pitch. Alot of people have started taking Creatine and Protein supplements and its getting crazy. Soon enough if someone got professional he could start taking steroids and feel ok about it. But alot of teams that weve played (and won of course!) such as Glenstal and CBC, alot of the players just couldnt believe that they had gotten beaten by a "B" school and many of them were balling crying after it. The whole "A" and "B" school gets to the schools heads and some think that its a crime to lose to a "B" school. Its gotten over the top I think

RuggieBear

My brother played for the Blackrock JCT about a decade ago....he never used creatine but he did train everyday after class and sometimes, during lunch breaks they'd practice the moves out in the yard.

scuba steve

ya its commitment like that that our team lacked. Im not saying we werent good, we were the best B school in Munster, but some people on the team didnt even go to the one training session a week and expected to get on the team for the matches. I think creatine should be left until youre at least 16 coz any lower and youre still developing muscle, you till can be at 16 and upwards

qwertyup

Having played in Blackrock the whole way through (admittedly at B team level), I admit that there is a degree of pressure placed on what the school views as its top teams.

That said, it was definitely the pinnacle of rugby for me so far. It was great having enough bodies that you could afford to do full contact training, murderball etc etc and not have to panic about generating injury crises and such.

Sangre

Ahhh murderball...so much fun.

Snickers Man

daveirl wrote:

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Who's freaking out about it? I asked a question, that's all. It does concern me as the parent of a young lad who plays at school and loves it. I encourage him to play as well and hope he continues to enjoy his sport.

I acknowledge that creatine is a natural substance and that is a legal supplement. But then, blood is a natural and legal substance. Does that mean that blood doping should be tolerated? This is a process which turns ones blood into a substance the consistency of which resembles treacle sludge and has led to the nightmare of young athletes having to sleep with a heart monitor on because if their heart rate slows down below a certain rate, it will not be sufficient to pump the sludge around their system.

So heart monitor wakes you up when the heart slows down, you jump out of bed on to an exercise bike and peddle like billy-o until such a time as your heart speeds up to a rate when it's safe to go to sleep again. That's mad, Ted.

I have read suggestions that Jonah Lomu's health problems, culminating in a kidney transplant before the age of 30 (that's mad too, Ted) was due at least in part to over imbibing creatine as a kid. He was one ****ing big 19-year old, you may remember.

I fully intend being one of those pain in the arse parents who will demand answers to the treatment meted out to their sons, especially with regard to 'dietary supplements' and I make absolutely no apology for doing so.

The future of the game as a game depends on attitudes like that.

daveirl

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strassenwolf

RuggieBear wrote:

But to consume it in such large quantaties is hardly tho is it?

Tbh, i believe the only danger from creatine is that it puts pressure on the kidneys from extra urination but Dave might know more about that being fitness mod...

I'm not sure that it's the only danger, though I am only able to relate the experience of an acquaintance of mine, rather than my own personal experience.

This acquaintance used to take creatine to build up his muscles for schools cup and later u-19 rugby. It worked well for most of his muscles, though seemed to have a diminishing effect on his genitalia. The way he put it to me was "I woke up one day and I couldn't see my w***y, so I decided to stop taking creatine."

To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't looked back since;)

celt2005

A Chairde,


Creatine is indeed natural, but can be harmful if ingested incorrectly.

Creatine, if not cycled in diet is useless, and generally has no effect if you are above 10% body fat, ruling out most team sport athletes.

I agree youths should not use Creatine in isolation, but a structured nutrition plan is essential for young athletes, the only way they will become very good is controlled overloading of muscles, ligaments to strengthen for specific sports situations , and nutrition is important part of this.

daveirl

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Chucky the tree

Amz wrote:

There's not enough education out there about creatine, when and how to use it and how to get maximum benefit from it.
.

Surely it comes with a leaflet how what dosage they should be taking? If there too thick to read it properly then goodluck to them.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I agree with ya Dubguy, i think it has gone too far aswell. How are smaller schools meant to compete with bigger schools when their players are pumped full of drugs?

For example, the year i played junior cup rugby, was the year Belvo won the cup. It was 1999. We played them in the first round and get destroyed. By far a better team than us, but it was also like a bunch of 15 year old's playing a team of adults! They were huge and went on to win the cup easily that year

thegaffer

i wanna know how dubguy knows that illegal drugs are given to boys in 'rock. as a former player on the s there this is news to me. when i played last year all sorts of drugs and even protein supplements were strongly discouraged they said that if you want to get bigger eat foods full of protein and dont take proteins shakes and the likes. i won't deny the poatching of players though, however this annoys players in the schools as well.

Superdub2

I went to tenerure and finished in 02 and in a 4 year period includinf they year after i left we got to the final 3 of the senior cup 3 times and won it twice and that kind of widespread encouragement of drug use is news to me.

While my rugby experience was limited to a few games in 4th year cuz i play soccer and hadnt the time for rugby and school most of my mates played on those teams and some of my mates have 2 senior cup winners medals so surely they are at the top levels of the schools game, and some now play for Leinster and they dont take even creatine.

theydo however use protein shakes and they are encouraged but generally its believed that the more natural the better.

i know nobody who took steroids, at least not anybody who admitted it but ill admit i had my suspicions bout one or two people.

I doknow people who took creatine, some as early as 15 years of age but generally they are the exception to the rule.


however id agree that generally the players are much better physically conditioned in the big schools and are generally bigger than the oppoition. but you have to remember these schools, at least in my time, trained nearly every day and have coaches with the sole purpose of running the seniors and nothign else. also when i started 4th year and went out to play one of the first things they did was bring us into the gym and show us how everything works and give us all programs. in many of the smaller schools they do not have these facilities or luxuries and are at a disadvantage. for example, inn my time templeogue college used our gym cuz they didnt have their own.

also in terenure they play rugby from a very young age and it is bred into them the minute they start school, all with the single goal of doing as well in the senior cup when they get their turn, everything up to that point is prepatration. So in that respect the bigt schools are in a different league
This is the feedback ive gotten off my mates over the years who played rugby to the highest level at schools, but however i could be wrong but i doubt there was a huge conspiracy to keep all the "drug abuse" from me!:D

RuggieBear

horse**** pure and simple.

my brother was a rock rugby player...no drugs went anywhere near him and they were acively discouraged from supplements and the like.

they were given diet tips and recipes however

Amazotheamazing

The IRFU have always taken a strong anti-supplement stance, did you ever wonder why our players seem so small compared to some teams? Also the IRFU tends to encourage players to finish third level before really turning pro so they have careers if rugby doesn't go well.

I find it very hard to believe they would turn a blind eye to drug taking by school players.

Some Unions don't treat their players so well.

besty

DubGuy I really don't know what you're on about. In my experience of my rugby "career" (JCT + SCT x 2), there was never any encouragement of supplement taking. There was actually an outright ban put on creatine and the likes.
Schools rugby really is a great thing. It has taken a bad rap lately buy regarding the academic side of things that some have already eluded to, most of the rugby guys in my year performed above average in state exams.

Just my experience.

Amz

DubGuy, please refrain from making such unfounded allegations in future. I've deleted your post and removed the quote from RuggieBear's post.




To be honest.

RandolphEsq

Ive seen protein,creatine and other supplement talks to the rugby team in my school and it was advised not to take it without consulting the coach first to tell how to properly take it. I dont see whats wrong with taking the supplements though

[Jackass]

lol, well anyway, i know this becase loads of my mates played in 'rock (i didnt go there though) and had gotten series of steriod injections on injuries and were on a course of em whilst training.

RuggieBear

for medical recovery is quite a bit different from performance enhancing

Sangre

DubGuy wrote:

lol, well anyway, i know this becase loads of my mates played in 'rock (i didnt go there though) and had gotten series of steriod injections on injuries and were on a course of em whilst training.

rofl

[Jackass]

Ah, whatever man, I'm just telling you what they told me...

daveirl

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coghlaa

I agree it seems that some schools are pushing creatine on players which might be a reason for so many injuries. Also the focus is all wrong, they should be creating dynamic, athletic rugby palyers not muscle bound freaks. even Brian O'driscoll seems to have improved from laying of the weights (due to injury) and finding his God given innate skills again. finally look at the New Zealand system. Kids play skills game before they even think of the 15man game.