Can these players be read?

breadmonkey

Hi, I'm a poker n00b but have been getting better recently.

I would like to learn about reading/tells but I only ever play with my mates live and I'm not sure if it's possible to get an accurate read on the vast majority of them.

Most are the type of player that will call any preflop raise if they've already limped, call on the flop/turn with any pair, call preflop raises with things like A2. Some of them play every hadn and inevitably get lucky and build up a massive stack only to spend the res tof the time stacking their chips and p!ssing the stack away by limping every hand and getting sucked in with some sort of draw......

Blah, blah, blah.

So, in short, is it even worth my while to try and learn to "read" these type of players?

roryc

Mike Caro - Book of Tells

Culchie

I can only speak from my point of view, but I found Caros book of tells not very helpful.

Firstly the pictures are of terrible quality, and thenI found myself weighing up opponents according to Caros books, and 7 or 8 times out of ten I was wrong.
But that was when I rarely played live poker.

Now, I find I'm quite good at 'smelling trouble' .... it becomes a sixth sense, an instinct, rather than a tell (for me anyway).

It's probably something you notice subliminally, rather than obviously (with better players anyway)..... a slight change in betting pattern, chips are put in a stack rather than thrown in ..... most times I can't identify what is alerting my senses, but something is, and that's the read I go on, I tread carefully.

Players who have been playing the live game far longer than me will be able to describe it better, but I think it becomes an instinct. I'm not a high stakes player either, (nor do I want to be really), so some insight from some of the heavy hitters here on their observations would be interesting.

I'm also a believer that like the very best sportsmen, to be a good card/poker/chess player, you also need to be quite intelligent and imaginative.... both for you own play and interpreting other peoples play and picking up on signals and subliminal 'gut feelings'.

So in summary, there's no substitute for experience, as long as you are bright enough and aware enough to try and pick up and interpret the different messages people are giving off in all different ways.

Amaru

I find that bad players are some of the hardest to put on a hand, because they don't know what they should be doing. Ideas of your opponents holdings are generally formed by their actions, like say if an opponent raises, and you reraise, and they call, you could probably narrow their range to some broadway or a medium pocket pair, or if they come over the top, you could say AK or a big pocket pair. However, with bad players, its almost impossible to do this, because their plays generally aren't the correct play. Some will reraise with A3, because its suited, others will call big bets all the way to the river with an inside straight draw. In short, the best you can do is play solid poker, waiting for good starting hands, and then trying to maximise profit from them.

PS, i'm am now an expert on the above because my mates and I decided to play a $1 stt last night for fun. The players there were so bad that it made me cry. I eventually went out when the chip leader called an all in from my very healthy stack with an inside straight draw.

mewso

I think you'll find the better players will use the information you already have (i.e. possible range of hands they will have) to calculate the EV of calling/raising/folding particularly against unpredictable players. Reads you'll get from experience and as has been said Caros book is pretty standard stuff of the "if he is weak he is strong but he may be pretending to be weak to make you think he is strong" variety which really renders it pointless and makes it better to use your own experience to get good reads.

kincsem

Culchie wrote:

Now, I find I'm quite good at 'smelling trouble' .... it becomes a sixth sense, an instinct, rather than a tell (for me anyway).

It's probably something you notice subliminally, rather than obviously (with better players anyway)..... a slight change in betting pattern, chips are put in a stack rather than thrown in ..... most times I can't identify what is alerting my senses, but something is, and that's the read I go on, I tread carefully.

Many times I was 50/50 to call and decided to fold. The player to my immediate left went all-in. I was not watching him but I got the feeling that there was trouble ahead. I believe you should follow your instincts.

There are few visual tells in my opinion. A good player minimises movement or does an acting job to get you to act the way he wants.

If you are playing a poor player you will need to show him a hand to take his chips. This can be frustrating when you are not getting hands and he is giving his chips to every other player on the table.

I have a read on a couple of players (or I think I do) but to benefit I will have to get on their table, get a hand, then hope they make their move. You can notice moves by players and let them get away with it, but later when they overuse the move you can make them pay. They tend to believe that if a move works once against you they can use it again and again. Surprise them.

The best read is reading your hole cards, reading the flop, reading the betting patterns of the other players, and remember the cards they show down.