Why do some people have a problem with subtitled films?

nlgbbbblth

I don't get it.

English is not everybody's first language so naturally many films will be made in the language of the country of origin.

I seem to be the only person in the building where I work who doesn't have a problem with this.

- I can't concentrate on subtitles
- They're too hard to read
- Subtitled films are too arty / serious

When I tell them that dismissing such films means that they are depriving themselves of some quality entertainment I just get the glazed eyes reaction or else somewhere will try and make a smart comment.

LOSERS.

aidan_walsh

LOSERS.

Indeed :rolleyes:

It could be argued that reading subtitles detracts from the rest of the picture. Its more difficult to get the full impression (facial, environmental, etc) when you have to concentrate on the very bottom of the screen for a few seconds.

You also have to bear in mind that some people read faster than others, so someone may not necessarily be finished by the time the subtitle has moved on.

Speech bubbles would be better, tbh

p~b

because you have to concentrate on the movie and whats happening in the film.

if you dont concentrate for a minute you get lost.

watching a film is'nt meant to be work

DonkeyStyle \o/

tbh I find flicking my eyes between subtitle text and what's happening on the screen a bit tiring.
Missing facial expressions, and the other little (but important) details.
I enjoyed Amélie though since it wasn't too dialog-heavy to begin with.
Something like A few good men would be unbearable though, so many fast-talking exchanges... I just couldn't keep up.

lodgepole

I've grown used to subtitles but it wasn't something that came easy. I did it because I became interested in cinema and wanted to see certain films that required subtitles. I don't hold disliking subtitles against anybody. We all like what we like, and some people just don't dig reading the screen while trying to pay attention to the visuals.

nlgbbbblth

Maybe this is unique to my experience in the workplace but I find that the same people who don't dig subtitles have crap taste in

- Music (strictly Top 40. anything else is weird / obscure. rarely buy music, if they do chances are it'll be a greatest hits / best of as opposed to a studio album)

- Reading material (tabloids, dumbed-down fiction)

- Television (reality shows, nothing edgy or inventive. Archive television is dismissed as old-fashioned and boring. Don't get Seinfeld. BBC2 and BBC4 are too highbrow. Never heard of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Arrested Development, The Thick Of It, Nathan Barley etc etc)

ixoy

I think it's a shame that some people are missing out and it saddens me a little that the likes of Cinéworld feel compelled to have to inform you if a movie is subtitled, as if it would make a big impact on your choice.

I've grown used to them enough myself not to find them distracting. The only movie I can recall, offhand, that was fairly dialog heavy was "Infernal Affairs" but that was still highly enjoyable and didn't require us to get "The Departed" this year.

The only way maybe we can break out of this impasse is the approach taken with "Nightwatch" where Fox, realizing subtitles might alienate the youth audience they sought out, experimented with them in a reasonably interesting fashion.

Hugh Hefner

nlgbbbblth wrote:

- Television (reality shows, nothing edgy or inventive. Archive television is dismissed as old-fashioned and boring. Don't get Seinfeld. BBC2 and BBC4 are too highbrow. Never heard of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Arrested Development, The Thick Of It, Nathan Barley etc etc)

Hee hee, make them watch Nathan Barley and see if they get that they're being made fun of. Ha!

delly

Some of my fav films are subtitled; Betty Blue, La Haine, Taxi........hey, i'm noticing a bit of a pattern here. And i went to France this year for my holidays.....OMG i'm turning French!

Karl Hungus

For me, when watching a subtitled film, I generally don't really notice the fact, in that the subtitles seemingly just register with me without any effort at all. I'll just be watching away the same as with a film that isn't subtitled, it makes no odds either way. The strange thing is, I'm someone who's dyslexic, I'm a fairly slow reader in general, and it takes me ages to finish a book, yet I've no problem with subtitled films.

So when I hear excuses from people who don't watch subtitled films like "I can't watch a film and read at the same time" or "You miss out on what's happening when reading" I think to myself that they're just that: excuses. If I have no problem watching subtitled films, I can't see why anyone else who has a reasonable literacy level would have a problem either. So when lines like that are spewed, I generally see them as nothing but excuses from people who probably haven't actually seen a subtitled film in their lives, or possibly just brielfy glaced at one.

There's a lot of closed minded and ignorant people out there, and indeed, I find the corelation between people who wouldn't watch a subtitled film and their taste is music, books or TV one that rings true. It's all just fairly ignorant people in general, and there's a lot of people out there who won't watch/listen/read anything that isn't deemed the popular thing. I'm reminded a lot of a recent thread on the music board about U2, and I got the impression that many people who said they liked the band, only did so because the band are popular/sold well. Some people seemingly need their interests ratified by their circle of friends, and can't choose on their own.

People like that will just dismiss everything and anything simply for not being the in thing.

projectmayhem

simple answer: people are lazy. that's why films like american pie:band camp get made. because people are idiots who refuse to watch an amazing film because steven speilberg didn't direct it and it doesn't star vin diesel.

tie_mi_shu

i don't mind it at all.. but i got a dvd at a market last week, it was in english speaking but it had english subtitles too.. very confusing..

Blackjack

Das Boot is not the same when you use the English Dubbed Version on DVD. I can only watch it with the subtitles*.







*Unless I leard German later in life

DonkeyStyle \o/

Karl Hungus wrote:

If I have no problem watching subtitled films, I can't see why anyone else who has a reasonable literacy level would have a problem either.

Well you're you.

Karl Hungus wrote:

There's a lot of closed minded and ignorant people out there

Indeed. :rolleyes:
Anyone who finds subtitles distracting is clearly an uncultured buffoon.
There's absolutely no grey area, and if you disagree with me then you listen to Britney Spears and watch taped episodes of Jerry Springer. :rolleyes:









Oh, and :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lodgepole

ixoy wrote:

I think it's a shame that some people are missing out and it saddens me a little that the likes of Cinéworld feel compelled to have to inform you if a movie is subtitled, as if it would make a big impact on your choice.

I think that should absolutely inform people when a movie is subtitled. It's fair to say that most of us posting in this thread have no issue with subtitles and have watched enough subtitled movies to grow used to them. But that's not fair on other people who simply don't have enough of an interest in cinema to read a film. They just want to escape for a few hours, and more power to them.

OptimusMime

Hugh Hefner wrote:

Hee hee, make them watch Nathan Barley and see if they get that they're being made fun of. Ha!

Making a comment like that means that the joke is on you too CHUUUUUUM...Pah




(;))

Zillah

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Maybe this is unique to my experience in the workplace but I find that the same people who don't dig subtitles have crap taste in

- Music (strictly Top 40. anything else is weird / obscure. rarely buy music, if they do chances are it'll be a greatest hits / best of as opposed to a studio album)

- Reading material (tabloids, dumbed-down fiction)

- Television (reality shows, nothing edgy or inventive. Archive television is dismissed as old-fashioned and boring. Don't get Seinfeld. BBC2 and BBC4 are too highbrow. Never heard of Curb Your Enthusiasm, Arrested Development, The Thick Of It, Nathan Barley etc etc)

Shh. What you're talking about are "stupid people". Otherwise known as sheep, plebs, morons.

Its not a new phenomenon. Im amazed that its like you're only realising it now...

delly

Blackjack wrote:

Das Boot is not the same when you use the English Dubbed Version on DVD. I can only watch it with the subtitles

Fogot about that one as well. Held off on watching it until i had the book read.

Both are superb.

Running Bing

nlgbbbblth wrote:

I don't get it.

English is not everybody's first language so naturally many films will be made in the language of the country of origin.

I seem to be the only person in the building where I work who doesn't have a problem with this.

- I can't concentrate on subtitles
- They're too hard to read
- Subtitled films are too arty / serious

When I tell them that dismissing such films means that they are depriving themselves of some quality entertainment I just get the glazed eyes reaction or else somewhere will try and make a smart comment.

LOSERS.

Its quite simple imo. When most people watch a film they watch it purely for entertainment purposes and to relax for an hour or two. Most people watch movies just to past the time and they dont really care about film as an art form or want something that taxes their brain too much. Thats fair imo. I absolutely love film and Im very interested in it and as a result I watch a lot of subbed films, But when it come to litreture I just want something light and entertaining like the da vinci code because I dont have a great interest in the subject. What it boils down to is most people like films but dont like film as a subject which is fair enough imo.

Cactus Col

I've noticed when watching films with subtitles and dubed english language tracks, that the subtitled version will be different from the english language track, often missing words or phrases, or just condensing what's being said on screen. The english lanaguage track is probably the more accurate translation of the original script, and so in using the subtitles, you're probably missing out.

madrab

i dont mind subtitled movies, but i have to watch them on my own so i can concentrate without having someone (NOT my gf - in case she is reading this) pestering you

the_syco

The main reason why I don't like subtitles is: no smilies:(

You see, without smilies, you can't tell what they mean, emotionally. Its just plain text. If there's a heated arguement, you can hear the anger, but other than that, the text gives away little.

madrab

the_syco wrote:

The main reason why I don't like subtitles is: no smilies:(

You see, without smilies, you can't tell what they mean, emotionally. Its just plain text. If there's a heated arguement, you can hear the anger, but other than that, the text gives away little.

and there i was thinking that the passion was a comedy that i just didnt get as there werent any smillies

Karl Hungus

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Anyone who finds subtitles distracting is clearly an uncultured buffoon.

I'm glad we agree on this.

Wacker

The sub-titles in Hard Boiled are pretty tough, as they fly by and it is hard to catch everything. In the Seven Samuri, for example, it is done better. They don't translate the un-important stuff, thus giving you a chance to read it all.

nlgbbbblth

Zillah wrote:

Shh. What you're talking about are "stupid people". Otherwise known as sheep, plebs, morons.

Its not a new phenomenon. Im amazed that its like you're only realising it now...

Realising it now?

I realised it a long, long time ago.

nadir

Babybing wrote:

Its quite simple imo. When most people watch a film they watch it purely for entertainment purposes and to relax for an hour or two. Most people watch movies just to past the time and they dont really care about film as an art form or want something that taxes their brain too much.

Yeah I'll go with that. As a rule I think people who watch dubs or refuse to watch subs have a limited taste.
People who watch subs are willing to appreciate the the media as it was intended by the creator.
Anything like 'I spend so much time reading text I miss the film' is an excuse for being generally uninterested. Which is cool, if your not interested don't watch.
You miss 100% more watching a dub , one is better off not watching the film at all. You miss the language, nuances, original voice cast, expression, and quite often they botch the music as well.

Cactus Col wrote:

I've noticed when watching films with subtitles and dubed english language tracks, that the subtitled version will be different from the english language track, often missing words or phrases, or just condensing what's being said on screen. The english lanaguage track is probably the more accurate translation of the original script, and so in using the subtitles, you're probably missing out.

nah, I'd say you're probably missing out.

Crash

Cactus Col wrote:

I've noticed when watching films with subtitles and dubed english language tracks, that the subtitled version will be different from the english language track, often missing words or phrases, or just condensing what's being said on screen. The english lanaguage track is probably the more accurate translation of the original script, and so in using the subtitles, you're probably missing out.

Actually, the dubs are lip synced, so they're never exactly what you'd call accurate. So in fact you're missing more out that way.

I prefer subtitles for one simple reason - i cant stand English voice actors. they dont fit. they cant get the same inflection and emotion into what they're doing that the original actors can, and it just feels dead to me.

rubadub

nadir wrote:

Yeah I'll go with that. As a rule I think people who watch dubs or refuse to watch subs have a limited taste.

Yes to some degree. There are so many films out there to choose from that it is easier for some people to just get one without subs. Many people just want to turn their brains off and watch mindless violence with ludicrous plots, each to their own.

nadir wrote:

People who watch subs are willing to appreciate the the media as it was intended by the creator.

what about films where the subs are totally different to the actual dialogue, where subs are put in by a third party who cant be bothered doing a good job. This could be another reason somepeople do not like subs, because they could be watching (well reading) a film NOT as intended by the creator. Is there the same labelling of people as morons who like literature but would not like to read a translation of a foreign novel?

nadir wrote:

Anything like 'I spend so much time reading text I miss the film' is an excuse for being generally uninterested. Which is cool, if your not interested don't watch.
You miss 100% more watching a dub , one is better off not watching the film at all. You miss the language, nuances, original voice cast, expression, and quite often they botch the music as well..

I am sort of 50/50. I have watched a fair few subbed films and have gotten fairly used to it. I also used to listen to music while watching TV on mute with the subs on programs, with TV programs they certainly leave out a lot of dialogue in the subs.
I dont like the fact I could be missing subtle on screen action with a subbed film. My solution? watch it twice! or 3 times if it has subs/dub. I was watching baise moi, a uk version and the subs seemed to be using english sayings, no way it was a direct translation, I even spotted some bits totally worded differently that gave a fairly different meaning (I have poor french too). I liked the fact that it did give more common sayings though, but are there films out there with 2 or more subtitles? like a direct translation and a "local" version, with common english sayings.

Capt'n Midnight

My problem is with silent films - adding subtitles would save a few minutes per film

Sound efects are better in the originals

and you can watch them on fast forward and see most of the plot and slow down when you get to the good bits

I really hate when kids are dubbed with chirpy female american voices - doesn't sit right on a chinese slum kid from the 13th century somehow.

BTW: on Italian TV subtitles are on page 777 not 888 like over here !

nadir

rubadub wrote:

what about films where the subs are totally different to the actual dialogue, where subs are put in by a third party who cant be bothered doing a good job. This could be another reason somepeople do not like subs, because they could be watching (well reading) a film NOT as intended by the creator. Is there the same labelling of people as morons who like literature but would not like to read a translation of a foreign novel?

I guess it depends how much you are into it, I can totally understand not reading a translated book also. I mean, if I had a passing interest in a book, I may read a translation, but on the other hand if I am really into it would learn the language to read it. I'm going to pick up a copy of 世界の中心で、愛をさけぶ(Sekai no chushin de ai wo sakebu) soon, and I intend to read it as it was written (albeit a learning exercise too).

As for subs, if the subbing quality is poor, well that's a a pity, usually with anime, I'll just wait for a decent fansubber to make a release, as for movies, if I hear the subs are bad, I just wont watch it. I find though, with most stuff I watch , the subs seem to be decent enough. Lets put it like this, I've seen a whole lot more bad dubs, than bad subs.

the same discussion is going on over on the anime/manga forum

Although that's just more of an extreme case. The Japs tend to treat anime as any other form of film, so the voice actors give it everything, the american dubs on the other hand are not done seriously, they are just wrong, all wrong ; They sound like porn stars, and cheap ones at that. The translations are often incorrect too.

Capt'n Midnight

Blackjack wrote:

Das Boot is not the same when you use the English Dubbed Version on DVD. I can only watch it with the subtitles*.
*Unless I leard German later in life

The really weird bit is that even the German is dubbed because of the noise when it was filmed. And even weirder is that the original cast dubbed themselves.


IMHO best subtitles were for Cyrano de Bergerac by Anthony Burgess.

lodgepole

nadir wrote:

Although that's just more of an extreme case. The Japs tend to treat anime as any other form of film, so the voice actors give it everything, the american dubs on the other hand are not done seriously, they are just wrong, all wrong ; They sound like porn stars, and cheap ones at that. The translations are often incorrect too.

Miyazaki's films being an obvious exception. The American dubs for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away were quite excellent. I have no problem watching them over the subtitled versions. I get your meaning on different subtitles though. Akira is a good example. My double video from many years ago has a terrible subtitle script, but the one I taped off BBC2 before I bought it is superb. I don't know where each was sourced.

lodgepole

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The really weird bit is that even the German is dubbed because of the noise when it was filmed. And even weirder is that the original cast dubbed themselves.

In the remake of Nosferatu the stars went one step further and acted every scene twice, once in German and once in English. From that they created two films, one English and one German. Both now available on the same DVD (well... in the same DVD box...).

nadir

Lodgepole wrote:

Miyazaki's films being an obvious exception. The American dubs for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away were quite excellent. I have no problem watching them over the subtitled versions. I get your meaning on different subtitles though. Akira is a good example. My double video from many years ago has a terrible subtitle script, but the one I taped off BBC2 before I bought it is superb. I don't know where each was sourced.

afair Ghibli have a say on english voice cast. They are cautions (and rightly so) of people bastardising their work.

shuushh

i never really find them that distracting around 10 minutes or so into the film you find your watching everything going on during the film and reading at the same time

The Black Oil

Some people just can't be arsed and are dismissive much the same way as some won't watch a film because it's in black and white! They really miss out on some gems.

adonis

thats the answer, or closed mindes (for once i agree with the disagreeable hungus)
also, i think that someone pointed out a blatant difference in the way that america and europe produce their movies...

Originally Posted by Babybing
Its quite simple imo. When most people watch a film they watch it purely for entertainment purposes and to relax for an hour or two.

this is the american mass production value and way to make movies, whereas the europeans tend to try and imbue the film with soul or art or whatever u want to call it...
and as we are sometimes called more american than european..this may be the reason that people dont like to watch subbed movies?!?!?

Capt'n Midnight

adonis wrote:

Originally Posted by Babybing
Its quite simple imo. When most people watch a film they watch it purely for entertainment purposes and to relax for an hour or two.

I find it easier to watch subtitles, if it's noisy or I'm surfing I'll turn on teletext page 888. Much easier to pick out the characters and if you don't hear a bit of dialog you can see it.

Babybing

Babybing wrote:

Its quite simple imo. When most people watch a film they watch it purely for entertainment purposes and to relax for an hour or two. Most people watch movies just to past the time and they dont really care about film as an art form or want something that taxes their brain too much. Thats fair imo. I absolutely love film and Im very interested in it and as a result I watch a lot of subbed films, But when it come to litreture I just want something light and entertaining like the da vinci code because I dont have a great interest in the subject. What it boils down to is most people like films but dont like film as a subject which is fair enough imo.

There is one flaw in what you say. In a perfect world it would be fair enough, but the people who just go for entertainment etc, will usually have a strong opinion on it anyway, similar to music. If they were all humble enough to admit they just go to kill some hours with their chick or whatever then cool....but how often is that the case. and the guy who says that will probably turn around and argue about the film anyway.
I remember a couple of years back I was about 22 and i was talking to this gal of about 20 about music. When i mentioned that i also listen to a lot of classical music.....her opinion and that of her friends was that 'its not normal at our age" i replied - so you mean i should just be listneing to what everyone else is listening to...would that be normal? she replied "yes"

jor el

Many reasons why people don't like subtitles. As said, it could be laziness, apathy or you might be distracted by them and end up missing vital scenes. If you read very slow you may find you miss half the conversations. Some people simply don't believe they'd like 'foregin' films.

Someone mentioned relaxing and unwinding and reading subtitles is a bit of a chore. I find that if the film is entertaining then it'll relax you whether or not you read the conversations or not. Watch a crap English speaking film and see how relaxed you are. Probably be a bit píssed off at that waste of 2 hours. Fantastic 4, Red Eye, The Cave, all English films that did nothing for relaxation. Now take something like Azumi, Zatoichi (I have a thing for Jap sword films) Battle Royale, La Femme Nikita or Switchblade Romance. Those are Japanese and French speaking films that I enjoyed very much and felt quite relaxed afterwards, except for the in-explicable fear of buzz-saws that I now have :eek:

One of my favorite films is Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, which I have on DVD. I did watch it one night when it was on TV3 but it was the dubbed version which is just so crap in comparison.

It's all down to personal preference I guess. Some people love Chick Flick style romance films, others love horror.

It is a shame though that many people immediately discount a subtitled film just because of the subtitles. If you do this you are missing out on so many great films.