Threads About Travellers Will Be Closed

amp

Humanities needs a break from being the host of the vitally intellectual debate about wether travellers are scum or not. As no one has ever posted anything other than anecdotal evidence I really can't be arsed reading essentially the same crap over and over again.

If you really wish to demonise a minority then I suggest you head over to those friendly folk at over at storm front who will no doubt welcome you with open arms and white hoods

People who start threads about travellers will be temp banned for a week. This does not include threads that are moved here from other forums. Those will be moved back to where they came from. I will leave this thread open for a while so that those who are outraged by this can vent all they like. I think it'll be fun

jay-me

I would just like to say that when i was a wee bairn i be-friended a load of travellers without personal problems however the young lads i was playing with were always getting abused physicaly and sexualy by members of their own family. They would come out with gashes and bruises from head to toe and some horrid tales of what my "PA" did to me. I think the children in such situations should be taken into care of the state. Also in God's eyes they are no less as people than u or I and if u see differently shame on you.

Dave!

yay for naivity!

amp

jay-me wrote:

I would just like to say that when i was a wee bairn i be-friended a load of travellers without personal problems however the young lads i was playing with were always getting abused physicaly and sexualy by members of their own family. They would come out with gashes and bruises from head to toe and some horrid tales of what my "PA" did to me. I think the children in such situations should be taken into care of the state. Also in God's eyes they are no less as people than u or I and if u see differently shame on you.

Oh I agree. However I don't see any evidence that this is endemic. The same problems happen in settled communities too.

amp

DaveMcG wrote:

yay for naivity!

I just noticed you're from Tallaght, a known scumbag area of Dublin.

BizMaker

amp wrote:

Oh I agree. However I don't see any evidence that this is endemic. The same problems happen in settled communities too.

So I presume that now you are the only person on Humanities that can talk about Travellers.

amp wrote:

I just noticed you're from Tallaght, a known scumbag area of Dublin.

And since you are a Mod, you can get away with this comment.

Fighting Irish

Boards is going to ****, if people wanna talk about something let them on. I see on the drinks board you can't talk about dutch gold. I say let me people talk about whatever they want

amp

BizMaker wrote:

So I presume that now you are the only person on Humanities that can talk about Travellers.

For the next couple of weeks anyway.

And since you are a Mod, you can get away with this comment.

I can get away with it because I was highlighting how stereotypes can be wrong. Logically if describing everybody from Tallaght as scumbags is wrong then does the same not apply to Travellers?

amp

Fighting Irish wrote:

Boards is going to ****, if people wanna talk about something let them on. I see on the drinks board you can't talk about dutch gold.

That is no longer the case. In fact I rediculed it.

I say let me people talk about whatever they want

Oh they can, as long as it's within charter rules.

BizMaker

I say let me people talk about whatever they want

amp wrote:

Oh they can, as long as it's within charter rules.

As long as it's not about Travellers. You are contradicting yourself.

By the way, your decision to close the Travellers was correct - it was becoming stale.

Your decision to censor the topic in future was incorrect - freedom of speech etc.

amp

BizMaker wrote:

As long as it's not about Travellers. You are contradicting yourself.

Well you got me there alright.

By the way, your decision to close the Travellers was correct - it was becoming stale.

Indeed.

Your decision to censor the topic in future was incorrect - freedom of speech etc.

You are not entitled to freedom of speech on this website. I would prefer to close the thread than ban people who only break charter rules when travellers are concerned. Having tried all other methods of enforcing charter rules with regard to this I am left with only one solution. This one.

billy the squid

Where to start, forgive me if this meanders a little it is a bit of a rant

Was it right to close the thread? Yes. It should have been closed before it even left After hours. Had the amount of derogetory terminology used in the thread been directed towards immigrants, it would have been closed. It would seem that while Irish people cannot stand seeing minorities from other countries being ridiculed, they seem to be tolerant, even applauding the ridicule of one if Ireland's own minorities. The thread was not moved to humanities because it was off topic for After Hours. It was moved because the moderator of After Hourse "received too many reports" relating to the thread.link

The proper course of action would have been to act on the reported posts rather than making it another moderator's problem.

again. those who repeatedly used words such as "pikey" to refer to travellers are still able to post in both forums. At the same time, someone using the N word to refer to black people have received sitewide bannings.

Should travellers be discussed? Yes. with all due respect to amp, I think that a blanket ban on the discussion of travellers is a bad idea. The problem is that such a subject is a magnet for immature posting by individuals who will post their anecdotes, make unsubstantiated claims about all travellers based on their individual anecdotes, and then harass those who ask them to back up their claims with evidence. the "I got attacked by a traveller therefore I know for a fact that all travellers are scum" attitude takes away from proper discussion.

anyway theres my €0.02.

amp

billy the squid wrote:

Should travellers be discussed? Yes. with all due respect to amp, I think that a blanket ban on the discussion of travellers is a bad idea. The problem is that such a subject is a magnet for immature posting by individuals who will post their anecdotes, make unsubstantiated claims about all travellers based on their individual anecdotes, and then harass those who ask them to back up their claims with evidence. the "I got attacked by a traveller therefore I know for a fact that all travellers are scum" attitude takes away from proper discussion.

You start out with saying it's a bad idea and then go on to provide pretty much the exact reasons why I'm closing Traveller threads.

Tusky

You are not allowing threads about travellers because you are tired of reading through them ? With all due respect Amp, its your job as a mod to read through them. Seems pretty ridiculous to ban a topic that draws so many different views, opinions and debate. Sure, abusive posts should be deleted or banned but to ban the subject outright ( and then to start discussing the topic with someone in this very thread ) is stupid.

amp

No Tusky, it always ends up with the same arguments over and over again. The same "hey I can post my racist diatribe because hey travellers aren't a race and my friend had a terrible incident with some travellers".

I'm not doing it because I'm tired of it (which I am). I'm doing it because not one Traveller thread has ever made it into an actual intellectual debate. Which is the purpose of this forum.

billy the squid

amp wrote:

You start out with saying it's a bad idea and then go on to provide pretty much the exact reasons why I'm closing Traveller threads.

I think banning the users responsible for these types of posts is a better course of action than to ban the whole subject.

amp

I would but people who are normally very rational tend to get completely irrational on the subject of travellers. And like I said, it's just for a couple of weeks.

simu

Well, whatever about threads started in this forum about travellers, any thread on the topic that has been moved here from AH is guaranteed to be full of posts that would have gotten the users who wrote them banned had they been posted in this forum originally. So, I think it's better to lock traveller threads in AH on sight and moderate any threads on travellers that are started here heavily. I wouldn't like to see a permanent ban on travellers being discussed here but a cooling-off period isn't a bad idea.

Isn't there some boards rule about how any thread that should be moved from AH to a more serious forum must be moved within 8 posts otherwise they're beyond redemption? If not, may this be known henceforth as simu's law!

amp

Threads from After Hours should be shot on sight imo. But hey that's just me.

rsynnott

Hear, hear.

Has there ever been a thread about Travellers that DIDN'T involve crazed racists, by the way?

Hobbes

Tusky wrote:

You are not allowing threads about travellers because you are tired of reading through them ?

Mods don't have to read every thread. In busy forums this is most certainly not the case. Hence there is a report post option.

I was expecting closure shortly after the move as nearly everyone up to that point were already breaking the charter with not backing up points with facts and more trying to win by direct attacks on the posters rather then the subject in hand.

What I found funny about it was that negative stories were taken as gospel yet if I mentioned anything "I had to prove it" then later I am slammed for supplying where I came to my conclusion from.

Tbh I learnt more about the traveller community trying to point out the BS people were spouting. I am not talking about bits where people had personal run-ins but more the conclusions from that (eg. They like to live in squalor, majority park illegally).

I've had more hassle in/out of Darndale then anything else in Ireland (fights/stuff stolen/broken/etc) yet I know for a fact that the vast majority of Darndale people are sound. However following peoples line of logic in the traveller thread it would suggest the reverse and 20 years ago Darndale people got the same kind of negative aspects from others in Dublin.

Oh and despite the personal attacks I was impressed that I was proven wrong for misreading stats. It meant that people were actually bothering to check up what I was saying. Those not sure I hope were doing the same on both sides. I don't lie, but I can certainly be wrong/misinformed but I am willing to admit with something beyond ancedotes.

Lafortezza

billy the squid wrote:

I think banning the users responsible for these types of posts is a better course of action than to ban the whole subject.

This would be the best option. Add a mod to humanties to help maybe. I'd do it, god knows nobody does much to warrant bans in the poker forum.

amp

It's not a manpower issue. I thought I already explained this. A couple of times. /shrug

Hobbes

simu wrote:

If not, may this be known henceforth as simu's law!

Biki'ed [wiki]Simu's Law[/wiki]

boardy

Hobbes wrote:

Tbh I learnt more about the traveller community trying to point out the BS people were spouting.
Oh and despite the personal attacks I was impressed that I was proven wrong for misreading stats. It meant that people were actually bothering to check up what I was saying.

And finally ….. we get to the essence of an informed discussion.
This is what debating such issues is all about.

People learn from these discussions.
Granted you will find ignorant posters with their bigoted remarks, but you will find them everywhere. And a quick ban will educate the other posters on how to behave on a thread with such a contentious issue.

Waving a magic wand and censoring a topic …… is wrong. Even with the excuse of a cooling off period, which is not logical, as it only leads to exasperation among regular posters.

Hobbes

I agree with Amps censoring tbh. Its got a time limit on it and I am noticing on other threads in other forums there are people posting anti-traveller stuff (on what isn't traveller related) so there is clearly an element here that needs to cool down.

boardy

Hobbes wrote:

....... I am noticing on other threads in other forums there are people posting anti-traveller stuff (on what isn't traveller related) so there is clearly an element here that needs to cool down.

You should think (deep down) about this. There are emotive reasons why this is happening.
If the topic was not censored, then maybe some posters may actually change their negative views of the travelling community by being confronted with proven inaccuracies.

"Threads About ******** Will Be Closed".
Insert anything here and I will object to the closing of the thread.
There needs to be a reason for the closure e.g. racist comments, unsubstantiated claims etc.

Freelancer

boardy wrote:

There needs to be a reason for the closure e.g. racist comments, unsubstantiated claims etc.

Those two examples are the sum total of the "antis" argument on that thread.

The thing that annoys me as I understand boards has a strong anti racism policy, yet throughout that thread a shocking volume of racist comments was present, posters said that travellers "were worse than animals" or "too violent to be trusted". I reported numerous posts indicitive of this behaviour and this Mod WWM acted like pontius pilot, and turfed the problem, rather than take reponsibility.

The traditional response to this appears to be "take it to feedback" and frankly any thread which criticises a mod's behaviour usually descends quickly into more experienced posters deriding the OP, no matter how legitimate or illegitimate the grievance is.

amp

It always ends up with the same arguments over and over again. The same "hey I can post my racist diatribe because hey travellers aren't a race and my friend had a terrible incident with some travellers".

I'm not doing it because I'm tired of it (which I am). I'm doing it because not one Traveller thread has ever made it into an actual intellectual debate. Which is the purpose of this forum.

Ajnag

Jezzus boss, they wont let us in to the pub and now they wont let us in to humanitys.

You bigot amp!
Anecdotes to follow.....

I will leave this thread open for a while so that those who are outraged by this can vent all they like. I think it'll be fun

Fraid not, the great unwashed bigots dont venture in here. In fact, what the **** am I doing here? :eek:

gaf1983

billy the squid wrote:

Should travellers be discussed? Yes. with all due respect to amp, I think that a blanket ban on the discussion of travellers is a bad idea.

I agree that I don't think a blanket ban is beneficial, although Amp I understand where you're coming from with regard to reading the same illogical abusive posts ad infinitum.

Might I suggest a restricted access forum for this topic, such as is the case with the Sex and Soccer forums, and bar any flouters of the rules of those forums? The only question would be what to call such a forum.

boardy

gaf1983 wrote:

I agree that I don't think a blanket ban is beneficial, although Amp I understand where you're coming from with regard to reading the same illogical abusive posts ad infinitum.

Might I suggest a restricted access forum for this topic, such as is the case with the Sex and Soccer forums, and bar any flouters of the rules of those forums? The only question would be what to call such a forum.

I do not believe we need a separate forum for Travellers? What would follow then: forums for Gypsies, Lithuanians, Nigerians, Red Haired people etc?

Restricted access is also a bad idea. Whose powerful hand decides entry into this restricted area? What is the criterion for getting in …… only like-minded individuals?

The existing rules and charters of Boards can easily manage an open forum.

billy the squid

I do not believe we need a separate forum for Travellers? What would follow then: forums for Gypsies, Lithuanians, Nigerians, Red Haired people etc?

why would you have a problem with Lithuanians and other minorities having forums on boards.

the only thing that would go against such an idea really in my opinion would be the numbers who would visit a forum. If there were enough travellers/lithuanians/Nigerians using boards to merit such a forum, i would not have a problem with it.

billy the squid

gaf1983 wrote:

Might I suggest a restricted access forum for this topic, such as is the case with the Sex and Soccer forums, and bar any flouters of the rules of those forums? The only question would be what to call such a forum.

A public access forum with no restrictions, other than those set out by a stiff charter, would be acceptable in my opinion. It would be the only way open discussion coult take place.

amp

Seeing as people don't seem to understand the concept of "a few weeks" this thread is now closed.