The best/most convincing bad guy

grimloch

So who do you reckon is the best baddie of them all? I won't bother with a poll as there's just too many to remember and alot of the games have 2 or 3 of the things.

Sephiroth would probably be the "coolest" bad guy but I'm not going to say he's the best. I just don't really think he's all that convincing. And I can't put my finger on the reason behind it.... Although I may well be missing something as usual.

Seymour was an okay bad guy from the point of view that you did actually want to kill him and X-death sort of has that feeling about him too.

I have no idea who the bad guys were in VIII as they appeared from nowhere.

Kuja was allright, he had a few cruel and destructive characteristics about him which made him quite a good bad guy but he was a bit of a wimpy boy tbh and didn't really have much of a baddie appearance about him, going round in a bellytop for half the game and so forth.

Personally I liked kefka the best, the laugh was great and the he sort of created an evil atmosphere around him. He was, to me, one of the only bad guys who was evil with no redeemable qualities whatsoever.

Therefore
1. Kefka
2. Kuja
3. The fellows in V

Zapp Brannigan

I agree with your comments about VIII. I mean where the fudge did Ultimecia come from?!

My best bad guy vote goes to Sephiroth, cos he's like a Fallen Angel.

Retr0gamer

Have to say Kefka is the best. Love how his character develops. He seems like a comic character at the start, the bumbling henchman. But it's not until he poisons a whole castle that we learn the true extent of his evil. From then on all of his actions are pure malicious. Of course there was also the laugh. Still I would like a better explaination for his actions other than him being mad.

I liked Sephiroth. His actions aren't well explained until you realise he was a puppet of Jenova. Love the way right at the end when we realise he was nothing without Jenova. Quite a tragic and pathetic bad guy in the end, which I like.

However no FF bad guy or any in a game can match Suikoden 2's mad prince Luca Blight. Suikoden has a policy were no character is truly evil. Luca goes on a crazed genocidal war against the free state cities and slaughters thousands of innocnets. However it's not until you learn why he has gone mad and the reason for his hatred of the free state cities and his father that you really appreciate his character. Although what he does is totally wrong you understand why he is doing it. Best of all is that you actually pity him for all he went through. It's unfortunate a lot of the ordeal he faced was cut from the English version since it is really disturbing but thankfully you can get all the info in www.suikosource.com

slightlycrazy

Sephiroth defitenly. No contest and I'm not sure what retrogamer is on about cause I have a totally different interpretation of those events.

Retr0gamer

Cloud wasn't the super cool hero type. We see in the flashback that he is nothing compared to Sephiroth. He didn't even get into SOLDIER. Sephiroth should have murdered him. But with Jenova destroyed along with Safer Sephiroth Cloud was capable of destroying him. Just look at Sephiroths shocked face when he dies. Remember that the Sephiroth you see and face up to that point is a projection of Sephiroths spirit that exists because of the immense power that Jenova lends Sephiroth. Sephiroths real body is crystalised in the Norhtern Crater (the Sephiroth cloud gives the black materia to). You face the real Sephiroth, his unpolluted spirit so to speak, when you are taken into the life stream by him at the end.

Anyway it would be boring if Sephiroth was just a 'cool' bad ass bad guy. i like my Enemies to have depth.If you read into the dialogue of the game more you will realise it.

slightlycrazy

No i got all that myself. Thats easy to figure out. Nut obviously enough cloud has matured in his fighting skills thruout the game. The bit I'm complaining about is "when we realise he was nothing without Jenova".

He was something but cloud obviously had improved enough to destroy him. His shocked face could be his shock at how much cloud had improved.

Retr0gamer

I wish he hadn't improved then we wouldn't have him flying around like Superman in Advent Children *shudder*. Probably should have said Sephiroth was only human not nothing without Jenova.

slightlycrazy

Right thats cool. Yeah in AC he defeated everyone way too easy for my liking

especially sephiroth at the end... gud movie though

Crucifix

Spoiler Warnings!! Someone was just recently posting that they're playing FF7 for the first time and not past the first disc

Retr0gamer

I haven't the time to spoilerfy everything in all the recent threads but if people want I can do it to any new ones. Just thought everyone and their dog played FFVII and anyone playing it at the moment shouldn't be reading threads like this or even be reading a FF forum unless they finished it. I'd be putting a warning out to tell people to use spoiler tags as well. I'm not babying any of you, do it yourselves!

Rhyme

Oh God, Kefka by a long distance... he was one of the only bad guys i truly believed was pure evil, sure Sephiroth had that

planet thing

but Kefka was just venom.

Click for that warm retro FF6 feeling...

DrJohnnyFever

Actually, Garland is the greatest FF boss of all time because, well, I just have to be difficult.

TouchingVirus

I hated them all

Sephiroth especially, then Kuja then Seymour

Iofur

Roffles...Ultemecia! Biggest waste of time EVER ! I think the writers just got lazy!

Kuja, meh, get over your bloody mid-life crisis monkey boy!

Sephiroth over-rated momma's boy!!!!

If you ask me, Jenova! Deliciously evil, and UGLY to boot

GLaDOS

Go on the Sephiroth!

miss_cheif

Sephiroth! Most complecated bad guy I've ever known.

Merrick

For me the Sephiroth and Jenova combination definately wins.
I kinda liked Edea for a breif moment in FFVIII but she got so whiny I wished she could have died. Then Ultimecia steps in and it all goes downhill from there...

Cronus333

I would say Seymour if he wasn't a Sephiroth clone so it is Vegnagun- oops, sorry, I really mean Jenova <cough>.

grimloch

Cronus333 wrote:

I would say Seymour if he wasn't a Sephiroth clone so it is Vegnagun- oops, sorry, I really mean Jenova <cough>.

Hey, hey! Everyone! He's promoting X-2.

Someone hold his arms, I'll punch him in the crotch until he loses consciousness.

Rhyme

KHSSSSSSssssssss

Retr0gamer

Maybe we should change the charter and ban people who admit liking FFX-2

Rhyme

Or introduce paddling...

Weeaboo... Weeaboo... Weeaboo...

Vokes

I like the opening menu music in FFX-2.

Will that get me a slap on the wrist

Retr0gamer

Menu music and the abyss of the farplane are acceptable. Anything else and the ninja wombats will be released.

miss_cheif

Retr0gamer wrote:

Menu music and the abyss of the farplane are acceptable. Anything else and the ninja wombats will be released.

Agree! Music good, the rest worse then bad.

3C.

The alternate endings in X-2 really pissed me off.

as for bad guys, Sephiroth so far is my favourite.
The worst has to be FFX's final boss.

X-SL

Sephiroth and I thought Rufus was cool. He had style haha

X-SL

Sephiroth and I thought Rufus was cool. He had style haha

3C.

Rufus had a nice white suit type....uh thing, there were like 2 layers going on with that jacket. it was cool.
does Reno count as a bad guy?

entropi

Yes, yes he does count as a bad guy

Reno was a badass i think, and played the part well in AC imo ^-^

The true badguy though would be Sephiroth, granted he doesn't like genocide as much as Kefka, he's still pretty evil. Closely followed by Kefka ofc and i'd throw Kuja in there too, just for keepsake.

I know i should get a beating for saying this, but

Shuyin was a bit of a nasty bloke also, wanting to kill everything with Vegnagun because of the Yevon war over 1000 years previously was a bit crazy tbh, he's a few cans short of a six-pack i think

3C.

Death Sentence wrote:

Yes, yes he does count as a bad guy

Reno was a badass i think, and played the part well in AC imo ^-^

The true badguy though would be Sephiroth, granted he doesn't like genocide as much as Kefka, he's still pretty evil. Closely followed by Kefka ofc and i'd throw Kuja in there too, just for keepsake.

I know i should get a beating for saying this, but

Shuyin was a bit of a nasty bloke also, wanting to kill everything with Vegnagun because of the Yevon war over 1000 years previously was a bit crazy tbh, he's a few cans short of a six-pack i think

Renos part in AC was really good. and

true Shuyin had that "insane ghost taking out frustration on the living" going on....he even had evil eyebrows. Him and vegnagun were beter bad guys than the ones in FFX, yu yevon was A SPIDER, i was so disapointed with that, too bad there wasn't a "rolled up newpaper" attack comand

I think sephiroth is winning ^^

grimloch

3C. wrote:

I think sephiroth is winning ^^

Someone else summed him up very well:

Sephiroth is a whiny emo fag with a mother complex.

Coolness does not make a good character. I'll admit he is rather cool at times but certainly not the most convincing bad guy.

Laguna

Sephiroth imo looks too effeminate to be cool, I mean just look at the guys hair, are you telling me he doesn't have to condition the **** out of that?, and the way he has his top open to near his navel, is he hawking for a center spread in Maxim/FHM?. I can't really think of any of the bad guys in the FF series that stood out for me, they all seem to have an identical meglomaniac personality..

grimloch

Laguna wrote:

Sephiroth imo looks too effeminate to be cool,

I wasn't referring specifically to his physical appearance. Although there is something rather cool about his sword and all that carry on.

Before we see the guy we stop in Kalm and hear Cloud blather on for some time about how big and great sephiroth is and then he bashes a big serpent and puts it on a stick for the laugh. And then there's the bit where he's walking through the fire after sacking the village.

I just didn't find him a good bad guy.

President Rufus

Sephiroth for me. He's pretty bad ass. Compare him to the likes of seifer, seifer was a peice a crap compared to him + he kills a charachter which is muchos bonus points in my book. Sword and outfit are cool also. - points on the hair, he should go for a cru cut

L

Nah, It's got to be Kefka

"My sweet little magic user...! Uweee, he, he! With this Slave Crown I'll practically OWN you!!"

Sephiroth wents nuts for a reason - Kefka just wanted the world

Retr0gamer

The problem with Sephiroth was that it wasn't a particularly good reason for him to go nuts. Kefka on the other hand was nuts from the beginning.

steviec

Sephiroth was brilliant for the way he made you hate him as the game went on, and for coolness of course. And there was a lot of depth to uncover too.

Seymour is a very interesting baddie too. At first I hated him, probably his camp look and voice had a lot to do with it, but when I found out more about him on side quests and about his parents it all adds up and I started to sympathise with him a little.

grimloch

Retr0gamer wrote:

The problem with Sephiroth was that it wasn't a particularly good reason for him to go nuts. Kefka on the other hand was nuts from the beginning.

That's true. Sephiroth went nuts because he wanted his mother.

I seem to recall an explanation for Kefka being slightly insane due to him being the first one to get one of those magitek infusion jobbies. Needless to say it went a bit wrong. An NPC said it so I can't get the exact quote.

Combining that with his desire, from square one, to betray Gestahl and take over the world gives somewhat of a better motive I might add.

I liked Seymour as a bad guy too.

Retr0gamer

grimloch wrote:

I seem to recall an explanation for Kefka being slightly insane due to him being the first one to get one of those magitek infusion jobbies. Needless to say it went a bit wrong. An NPC said it so I can't get the exact quote.

Combining that with his desire, from square one, to betray Gestahl and take over the world gives somewhat of a better motive I might add.

I liked Seymour as a bad guy too.

your right about Kefka. He was a failed experiment and was nuts since his creation. I think Cid explained this or else it was Gestahl

when the empire surrendered

. Then again Sephiroth was a failed experiment as well. I like the way Sephiroth was being fooled by Jenova into believing that he was her son when really he was just a more successful experiment.

As for Seymour. He seemed a bit of a perve to me after Yuna all the time. At least he didn't want to 'destroy the world'. A decent bad guy but (biggish FFX spoiler)

Yunalesca was better. It wasn't really obvious if what she was doing was bad or not and even then she believed that what she was doing was the best for the world

I'm actually getting rather tired of bad guys in RPGs that are out to destroy the world for no better reason that they were bored, woke up one morning and decided to do something to be remembered by. Very few games have bad guys with realistic goals and reasons for setting out to do them. The bad guys in the Suikoden series are a good example of realistic bad guys (love the way nobody is truly bad or pure evil in the Suikoden world, even Luca Blight is a pitiful character when you learn the reason for his genocidal war).

grimloch

Retr0gamer wrote:

A decent bad guy but (biggish FFX spoiler)

Yunalesca was better. It wasn't really obvious if what she was doing was bad or not and even then she believed that what she was doing was the best for the world

I must admit that I sort of missed that bit, in fact I'm fairly sure that part went completely over my head. Either that or I've forgotten it.

The bad guy out to destroy the world always adds a bit more of a "hero" element to things I think.

It seems, to me anyway, that games like Final Fantasy can nearly get away without putting in proper motivations for their bad guys. If they make him/her a cool character, the amount of people that question it seem to be outnumbered by those that don't. Sephiroth is an excellent example.

Crucifix

I've always been happy with Sephiroth and his 'reason'. I don't think his reason for going crazy was bad, maybe just a little pathetic. He was being tricked, manipulated, and lead, which I like because

it mirrors Cloud. He's told he's a puppet, and he admits to being a weak person and lying to himself; all things that can be said about Sephiroth.

Retr0gamer

grimloch wrote:

I must admit that I sort of missed that bit, in fact I'm fairly sure that part went completely over my head. Either that or I've forgotten it.

It was one of my favourite bits in the game.

When they kill Yunalesca the party are terrified if they did the right thing or not especially Yuna since what she did according to her religion was sacrilage.

Cosine

I'd have to say seymor gets my vote on the most anoying baddie :mad: pis*ed me off so much trying to kill him in the mountains.

For coolness it has to be Sephiroth

Retr0gamer

Was stuck on that boss for a while as well. Thought it was a superb boss fight. It you hadn't levelled up to ridiculous levels he was a real struggle and required loads of strategy to beat him. Shell and Protect have never been more useful

grimloch

Retr0gamer wrote:

Was stuck on that boss for a while as well. Thought it was a superb boss fight. It you hadn't levelled up to ridiculous levels he was a real struggle and required loads of strategy to beat him. Shell and Protect have never been more useful

That fight was horrible. So many controller tantrums. Not even those dark bastards annoyed me as much.

Cosine

how do you put in a spoiler?

In case anyone hasn't played it yet.

:rolleyes:

Retr0gamer

[*spoiler] oh my god the butler did it! [/spoiler]

Remove the asterix