"So long"

gaf1983

Does anybody know the origins of the English expression "So long"? I am reading a book by Bill Bryson at the moment, "Made in America", it's a history of the linguistic and cultural development of the USA, and in it he claims that the expression comes from a German phrase. I had always thought it originated from the Irish phrase "Slán." Can anyone clarify this for me?

mackerski

Someone else thinks it may be related to "shalom". Another similar interpretation. You could have considered a potential German(ic) origin if shalom were commonly used in Yiddish, but I don't know if that's the case.

I certainly can't think of any current German equivalent.

Dermot

captainfuture

As German is my mother-tongue, I'm sure that this one isn't originated in the German language as I can't think of any expression that comes close to "so long"... translated directley it means "that long" which doesn't make sense.

Sin scéal eile

captainfuture wrote:

As German is my mother-tongue, I'm sure that this one isn't originated in the German language as I can't think of any expression that comes close to "so long"... translated directley it means "that long" which doesn't make sense.

Found on the net: http://vernondent.blogspot.com/2005/12/carnival-of-etymologies_15.html

The likely German source preferred by etymologists is the phrase adieu so lange (with the "Farewell" word borrowed from French). In German, solange is used as a conjunction meaning "so long as, whilst." The sense of adieu so lange probably would be something like "farewell, whilst (we're apart)."

Blub2k4

Sin sc&#233 wrote: »

Found on the net: http://vernondent.blogspot.com/2005/12/carnival-of-etymologies_15.html

The likely German source preferred by etymologists is the phrase adieu so lange (with the "Farewell" word borrowed from French). In German, solange is used as a conjunction meaning "so long as, whilst." The sense of adieu so lange probably would be something like "farewell, whilst (we're apart)."

It would make sense if you had it in a phrase such as "passe auf dich auf, solange wir uns nicht sehen."

So this would be a possible origin alright.

galah

reading the same book, and I'm not sure how good Bill's research was (apart from the fact that this guy really does not know how to express himself clearly in plain English, which annoys me to the max (e.g. "unexceptionable" - what kind of a word is that??? Just write "common" for crying out loud!)

...He also claims "swamp" comes from the German word "zwamp" - I very much doubt that, as there is no such word in German that remotely relates to this. Will check my etymology books though just in case...;-)

For "so long" I found "shalom" (Yiddish) or "sa'laam" (Arabic) - but no similar German expression...So take it with a grain of salt (or two...)

Humpty

gaf1983 wrote:

Does anybody know the origins of the English expression "So long"? I am reading a book by Bill Bryson at the moment, "Made in America", it's a history of the linguistic and cultural development of the USA, and in it he claims that the expression comes from a German phrase. I had always thought it originated from the Irish phrase "Slán." Can anyone clarify this for me?

Hi there,

to be honest, I find Bill Bryson confusing alright ...
as for the "so long": the only way I frequently come across it is with a friend from Scotland who uses it for saying "good bye" ... In German it does not make any sense as "long" as such has no meaning whatsoever ... therefore I do not even agree to translating it into "that long" ...

there are a few dictionaries that translate "so long" into German "Auf Wiedersehen" ...

but I still haven't figured out where it's actually originated

Blub2k4

Humpty wrote:

there are a few dictionaries that translate "so long" into German "Auf Wiedersehen" ...

Solange wir uns nicht wiedersehen, perhaps?

mackerski

Translations of idiomatic expressions are always troublesome. For instance, to this day the gate staff in Munich airport, when they issue the call to board, say something like "we hope you have a pleasant flight, bye bye in Munich". Naturally, this use of bye bye is senseless to an English speaker. However, a German speaker who considers "bye bye" to have the same meaning as "auf wiedersehen" may not see the problem.

Dermot

Humpty

Blub2k4 wrote:

Solange wir uns nicht wiedersehen, perhaps?

"solange" is German and can be translated into English in several ways ...
your German example is grand ... but the English "so long" has nothing to do with it ... well nowadays ... God only if there is some relation from ancient times

is_that_so

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=so+long.

Blub2k4

Humpty wrote:

"solange" is German and can be translated into English in several ways ...
your German example is grand ... but the English "so long" has nothing to do with it ... well nowadays ... God only if there is some relation from ancient times

I dont agree with you and the article posted there from is_that_so leans in the direction of my explanation.
The relationship would be that that Angel-Sachsen spoke Germanic tongues which turned eventually into English, the dialect spoken in the area is "friesisch platt" which has an uncanny resemblance at times to English, but then it would, as it is one of the transition languages.