The worlds most famous atheist & Vegetarian

spooiirt!!

Adolf Hitler. Youre all in good company.

lostexpectation

i don't believe in vegetables

Dades

spooiirt!! wrote:

Adolf Hitler. Youre all in good company.

Obviously you're a big reader, but here's a link that might further your encyclopedic knowledge.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism

Now get back to your selection box.

Thinking of locking this - but will give the OP a while to reappear before I do...

pH

Sheesh

- I always thought that either Linda McCartney or Moby was the world's most famous vegetarian.

mysteria

Chris Martin from Coldplay?

Stephen

The Atheist wrote:

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism

Now get back to your selection box.

stevenmu

Interestingly, apart from being overtly christian, there's evidence (and not just Indiana Jones movies) that Hitler was deeply involved in the occult, I'll try and dig out the book I read about it and see if I can find some links.

Asiaprod

stevenmu wrote:

Interestingly, apart from being overtly christian, there's evidence (and not just Indiana Jones movies) that Hitler was deeply involved in the occult, I'll try and dig out the book I read about it and see if I can find some links.

Wiki it, he was more than deeply involved, it was a main motivator for him.
All his close top circle were hevily involved in it also. As part of his world domination stratergy, he activley sought out and possed as many claimed to be original christian relics of christianity's JC as he could find, and also went after many occult Holy Grails. His associates had already begun building their new occult fortress. If one can put a side for the moment the terrible things he and his missfits did do, one would find his life story an amazing read.

mysteria

Hitler employed all the top Astrologers, Magicians and Psychics of his day, he was extremely clever and funded a lot of research into the paranormal. One of the books about Hitler and the Occult is called "They used dark forces" and was written years ago by an acquaintance/colleague of mine, Herbie Brennan I think.

monkeyfudge

Is the statement that he was a vegetarian rather questionable as well?

pH

Is the statement that he was a vegetarian rather questionable as well?

Sadly we may never know as the OP seems to have forgotten to post the same thread in the vegetarian forum.

Maybe the OP should post in the vegetarian forum or maybe The Atheist should move the post as it appears to be highly relevant to both forums.

asiaprod wrote:

Wiki it, he was more than deeply involved, it was a main motivator for him.
All his close top circle were hevily involved in it also. As part of his world domination stratergy, he activley sought out and possed as many claimed to be original christian relics of christianity's JC as he could find, and also went after many occult Holy Grails.

The wiki entry on Hilter has nothing on the occult (though he *was* a cute baby). Without being rude is there any evidence of this (apart from the Indiana Jones and Hellboy movies!)

mysteria wrote:

Hitler employed all the top Astrologers, Magicians and Psychics of his day, he was extremely clever and funded a lot of research into the paranormal.

Now it seems that this post is also relevant to the Paranormal and possibly the Paganism forums too.

monkeyfudge

mysteria wrote:

he was extremely clever and funded a lot of research into the paranormal.

Yeah, real clever. He might have won the war if he'd payed more attention to funding atomic energy research.

mysteria

Here we go again! There is a huge amount of evidence on Hitler's occult involvement, and lots of books about it. By the way, anyone can write on wiki, you don't have to know what you're talking about. check it out, it's mostly very deficient in real informed knowledge on many subjects. Quite superficial, and I would'nt advise anyone to rely on it as a reliable source.Double check if you want genuine info.

spooiirt!!

Stephen wrote:

Ownage duly accepted. Thank you Sir, may i have another?

Asiaprod

pH wrote:

Without being rude is there any evidence of this (apart from the Indiana Jones and Hellboy movies!)

Yes there is a lot. I used Wiki as my starting point. I will try and track down some links over the weekend and post them for you.

Asiaprod

monkeyfudge wrote:

Is the statement that he was a vegetarian rather questionable as well?

No, I believe this is correct. As a result of this he was troubled with Flatulence all his life. I think his vegitarian aspect was a medical problem rather than a choice.

pH

Here we go again! There is a huge amount of evidence on Hitler's occult involvement, and lots of books about it. By the way, anyone can write on wiki, you don't have to know what you're talking about. check it out, it's mostly very deficient in real informed knowledge on many subjects. Quite superficial, and I would'nt advise anyone to rely on it as a reliable source.Double check if you want genuine info.

I'd say that was the whole point, if some idiot writes some rubbish then it gets corrected.

So where is this evidence? I'm looking for stuff written by a historian or biographer of Hilter preferably.

Here's a review of the literature:

http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/arcana/nazi.html

and a quote from it:

Lets's start our with the one serious book which everyone with an open mind and a willingness to evaluate sources should start with:

Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology, The Ariosophists of Austria and Germany, 1890-1935 (published 1985; republished as pb. by I.B. Tauris & Co., Ltd. London: 1992 -- I think there is also now an American publisher) This is a book by a scholar with a D.Phil. From Oxford and who is a serious student of the occult. It has well-researched material on the 19th and early 20th century volkish and occult groups and leaders: Ariosophy, Wotanism, the Armanenschaft, Order of New Templars (NOT the OTO), the Germanenorden, the Edda Society, the Thule, the probably imaginary Vril; von List, Lanz "von Liebenfels", "von Sebottendorff", Wiligut, et cetera, et al. You come away with a recognition that although a few occultists operated on the fringes of Nazism, they were pretty pitiful.

But mysteria like every other point you've been challenged on (like me to list 'em?) - you'll ignore it, start whining that people should "stop wasting your time" or just start posting on other subject.

Dades

Asiaprod wrote:

I think his vegitarian aspect was a medical problem rather than a choice.

If he was a veggie that would seem the more likely reason alright. :v:

Since we've established AH was not in reality an atheist, the only point of discussion is on the paranormal. Probably deserves it's only thread there rather than just moving this dubious one.

Meh!

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

If he was a veggie that would seem the more likely reason alright. :v:

Since we've established AH was not in reality an atheist, the only point of discussion is on the paranormal. Probably deserves it's only thread there rather than just moving this dubious one.

Meh!

I would agree Mein General. There is much that can be discussed from a Paranormal perspective, but little to add from an Agnostic/Atheist perspective. Move it away.

monkeyfudge

Well a quick google on the subject of Hitler's vegetarianism seems to throw up a bunch of vegatarian sites staunchly denying it.

Wikipedia have an article on the subject which seems more likely and covers the health issue too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

So... he considered himself a vegetarian but would eat meat from time to time... Hitler was talking bullsh.it then... surprise, surprise.

Crucifix

monkeyfudge wrote:

Yeah, real clever. He might have won the war if he'd payed more attention to funding atomic energy research.

Ha ha, imaginary rep++

Tar.Aldarion

Hmm ok, hitler was vegetarian for 16 years or something-mostly medical reasoning. His favourite food was pigeon and so he went back eating that. Really doubt the man's ethics so well I am suspect of it being about that.
Plus I wouldn't call him vegetarian as he ate pigeon etc now and again.Thank 'God' I'm not is such bad company...what a great thread.
oh and I would rate Einstein,gandhi and shaw as being the most famous ones for me.

Zombrex

Wouldn't Stalin, or Mao (the dictator, not the asian cafe) be a better example of bad Atheists?

robindch

> Wouldn't Stalin, or Mao (the dictator, not the asian cafe)
> be a better example of bad Atheists?

Couldn't say much about Mao, but I wouldn't be so fast about Stalin -- he trained as an Orthodox priest before moving into full-time dictatorship and seems to have used what he learnt in training to motivate the masses, by displacing orthodox religious beliefs. Not without success either, I must say.

http://www.films.com/id/64/Stalin_The_Red_God.htm

seems to go into this, but I've not seen it.

Bradley Martin's excellent new history of North Korea and the Kim Dynasty suggests that Kim Il Sung, The Great Leader, was born to a christian fundamentalist preacher, and subsequently turned what he learned as a kid into a pretty successful, if unspeakable, regime.

Regardless of the above, does anybody find it a bit odd that we're regularly reminded about the athiesm of these guys, but far more rarely about of the theistic beliefs of most other leaders?

Zombrex

robindch wrote:

Regardless of the above, does anybody find it a bit odd that we're regularly reminded about the athiesm of these guys, but far more rarely about of the theistic beliefs of most other leaders?

Well thats not quite true, a lot of made of the fact that Bush is a Born Again nut job..er.. I mean ... Christian ..

The thing I don't get is that, unlike being a Christian or Jew which you means you follow some form of organisted behaviour, being an Atheist doesn't mean anything with reguards to your beliefs about topics.

I mean you wouldn't say "Well he is very anti-abortion because he is an atheist", it wouldn't make sense.

Atheism isn't a set of moral guidelines or beliefs like religion is,it doesn't instruct you on how to live. It is a description not a religion.

So you can't really infer anything about a persons personal beliefs from them being an Atheist, except that they don't believe in a god.

hairyheretic

pH wrote:

The wiki entry on Hilter has nothing on the occult (though he *was* a cute baby). Without being rude is there any evidence of this (apart from the Indiana Jones and Hellboy movies!)


Now it seems that this post is also relevant to the Paranormal and possibly the Paganism forums too.

We discussed the nazi use of paganism a while back. Here's the most relevent bit from the discussion:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3244636&postcount=5

The full thread is here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=293388

but went off that topic fairly quickly.

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

Atheism isn't a set of moral guidelines or beliefs like religion is,it doesn't instruct you on how to live. It is a description not a religion.
So you can't really infer anything about a persons personal beliefs from them being an Atheist, except that they don't believe in a god.

Very nicely put, I like this definition.

Dades

Wicknight wrote:

The thing I don't get is that, unlike being a Christian or Jew which you means you follow some form of organisted behaviour, being an Atheist doesn't mean anything with reguards to your beliefs about topics.

Being an atheist, you subscribe to no rule system, therefore you are in fact answerable to nobody. This is what makes people uncomfortable. Of course the reality is your conscience is your god.

I mean you wouldn't say "Well he is very anti-abortion because he is an atheist", it wouldn't make sense.

It would make sense if you thought that people without a belief system are less moral than those who live their life according to rules prescribed by someone else. Unfortunately there are people who subscribe to this ridiculous notion.

mysteria

What's your problem pH? I thought the purpose here is discussion, not attacking individuals.And your credentials are???????????

pH

mysteria wrote:

What's your problem pH? I thought the purpose here is discussion, not attacking individuals.And your credentials are???????????

Like I said (and yea I'm quoting myself)

pH wrote:

But mysteria like every other point you've been challenged on (like me to list 'em?) - you'll ignore it, start whining that people should "stop wasting your time" or just start posting on other subject.

You were not having a "discussion", you as a self appointed "occult expert" made a stament of fact using your usual dismissive tone.

mysteria wrote:

Here we go again! There is a huge amount of evidence on Hitler's occult involvement, and lots of books about it.

if this is true, then you should be able to back it up with say 10 cites from reputable historians or biographers of Hitler, after all you said "a huge amount of evidence"

All I'm saying is that everytime anyone asks you for anything like evidence or proof (that *you* claim exists) you start dragging the thread off topic.

robindch

> a lot of made of the fact that Bush is a Born Again nut
> job..er.. I mean ... Christian ..

ok, I should have put in the rider that whenever "evil" is being discussed, athiesm is generally brought up as a causitive factors more regularly than a strong religious belief is (although for many, if not most, the two should be equivalent guides to 'moral' behaviour).

> So you can't really infer anything about a persons
> personal beliefs from them being an Atheist, except
> that they don't believe in a god.

Yes, that's right. But I would go a bit further and say that atheists generally don't declare their own 'moral' scheme to be the one and only true one, something which religious beleivers constantly do. Also, atheists don't tend to carry out dramatic and antisocial belief displays -- the WTC attacks spring to mind, but there are plenty of more mundane examples. Next, I would imagine that most atheists are more sceptical of imposed 'moral' systems, and more likely to react against an anti-social authority. Finally, I would imagine that most atheists would believe that the good of humanity is the highest possible good, and consequently, I would expect them to be generally more helpful to their fellow-humans (certainly, this was my experience in a homeless shelter in Dublin some years back, where churchgoers were strongly under-represented in the staff; I have seen churchgoers well-represented elsewhere, but always linked to some activity likely to lead to an expansion of their own church which makes me suspicious of their claimed motives).

New year's greetings to all from snowy St Petersburg!

Excelsior

stevenmu wrote:

Interestingly, apart from being overtly christian, there's evidence (and not just Indiana Jones movies) that Hitler was deeply involved in the occult, I'll try and dig out the book I read about it and see if I can find some links.

Hitler was as far from Christian as you can get. I don't mean that in some "immoral therefore not Christian" empty headed way. He advocated NAZIism as the state religion, which Burleigh argues convincingly can be classified as a neo-paganism with a leadership cult driving it (no disrespect to the very great sample of Pagans on these Boards!). Therefore, he would be classified with those who Elijah would have battled with in the Old Testament.

He rejected the idea of Jesus as Christ outright.

Asiaprod

Excelsior wrote:

Hitler was as far from Christian as you can get.

My feeling on this is that you are correct Excelsior in what you say in how he applied his Christian roots, but the fact remains that Hitler did fear and hold in high regard your God. One of his most insistent pursuits was for the Spear of Destiny, the same one that is said to pierce the side of Jesus on the cross. The one that would enable the bearer to hold sway over the entire world. That was a pretty big commitment to Chritianity in my books:)

Zombrex

Excelsior wrote:

He advocated NAZIism as the state religion, which Burleigh argues convincingly can be classified as a neo-paganism with a leadership cult driving it

Kinda true, but he didn't do that for super-natural reasons, he didn't believe that the Nazi party was some form of religious entity, he did it for control, in the same way the Communist party got ride of religion all together (it would be incorrect to say that Communism replaced the Orthodox religion with the "religion" of Communism, since Communism isn't a religion and neither is the Nazi party)

Really Hitler just wanted to be the supreme leader of the German people and he didn't want anything, including religion with its own leaders (living and dead) to get in the way.

legspin

To go back to the original heading

George Bernard Shaw

Tar.Aldarion

Toss up for einstein and shaw for me too...maybe tolstoy...

archdukefranz

Stalin was kicked out of the training for the othodox church for some of the statements he made...

He then cut off his roots to "Christianity"... He was an athiest...
I imagine because he discovered he could get much more power through polotics than through religion.

Hitler wanted to be an artist, not a monk. He was rejected from the art college in vienna and went into politics instead.
He pulled some random verses from the Bible out of context that fitted in with his hatred, similar to his treatment of Niche he only used the church as a means of gathering support.
He stopped the publishing of Bibles in Germany and banned all chruches bar ones that followed his docterin replacing the Bible with Mein Kampf and God with Hitler.

These are not the actions of a Christian, but of someone who can recognise parts of the Christian church that are spiritually dead and exploit their lack of direction from God.