New house snags

Geegee

Hello, I'm new to this forum. Sorry to start off on a negative note but here goes with some new house snag queries:

Loft cistern:

A rustling sound can be heard throughout the house when it is refilling. It takes about ten minutes after flushing the toilet and one hour after running a bath to refill. I have checked the pressure at the ball valve and it is very low even though the mains pressure is good - about 50 PSI.

Can this pressure be increased?

Can the running water sound be eliminated/reduced?

HW pressure:

Can this be increased at the kitchen sink?

Toilet overflowing into waste

When the toilet is in use, the water in the bowl flows into the soil pipe. Looking at it, it appears the water level in the U bend is just below the top of the pipe so any slight addition to this level causes it to run down the pipe - is this normal? Again, I never noticed it before in my last house.

Radiator not getting as hot as others

How can this be cured?

Toilet leak

Toilet cistern was leaking and plumber couldn't find leak but it seems the plumber poured some sealant into the cistern which appears to be dissolving
so the leak will re-appear in time. What is the solution to this leak?

Sinks too high for pedestals

Two sinks have been installed slightly too high for the pedestals and the they have been wedged underneath at an angle. When it is flat on the floor the pedestal does not support the sink. Can the pedestal be packed underneath to bring it up?

RADIATIOR SIZE

I am unsure whether the radiators are the correct size for the rooms as the house never seems to be that warm.

I have carried out the output calculations on the B&Q website. I have also identified the radiators and they are Biasi. The Biasi sizes and outputs charts have two Btu columns: BTU's at 50k and 60k. There is a significant difference between the outputs. What does the 50k and 60k refer to and how should I ascertain which applies to my situation?




Thanks in advance.

Victor

Is this new or second hand house? How old is it approximately?

Geegee wrote:

Loft cistern:
A rustling sound can be heard throughout the house when it is refilling. It takes about ten minutes after flushing the toilet and one hour after running a bath to refill. I have checked the pressure at the ball valve and it is very low even though the mains pressure is good - about 50 PSI. Can this pressure be increased?

Check all the valves, etc. are open, if it is old pipework it might be be slightly blocked. You could fit a pump (you need a break tank if you do this).

Can the running water sound be eliminated/reduced?

Is there a cover on the tank? Fit a cover and insulate the tank & cover. Do not insulate so much under the tank to prevent it freezing.

HW pressure: Can this be increased at the kitchen sink?

Fit pump as above.

Toilet overflowing into waste
When the toilet is in use, the water in the bowl flows into the soil pipe. Looking at it, it appears the water level in the U bend is just below the top of the pipe so any slight addition to this level causes it to run down the pipe - is this normal? Again, I never noticed it before in my last house.

As you add "matter" to the toilet bowl, it displaces water into the soil pipe, usually this is a trickle. sees ketch

Radiator not getting as hot as others How can this be cured?

Turn it on! Check valves etc. If it is old, it may either have air or silt in it. With the heating system on full, check what parts are hot and cold.

Toilet leak Toilet cistern was leaking and plumber couldn't find leak but it seems the plumber poured some sealant into the cistern which appears to be dissolving so the leak will re-appear in time. What is the solution to this leak?

Where is it leaking at the outlet pipe? Make sure it has a proper rubber seal. Leave a newspaper under it too see how much it is leaking.

Sinks too high for pedestals Two sinks have been installed slightly too high for the pedestals and the they have been wedged underneath at an angle. When it is flat on the floor the pedestal does not support the sink. Can the pedestal be packed underneath to bring it up?

Was the floor finish changed? I suspect it is easier to raise the pedestal than lower the basin.

RADIATIOR SIZE I am unsure whether the radiators are the correct size for the rooms as the house never seems to be that warm.

how well is the house insulated?

I have carried out the output calculations on the B&Q website. I have also identified the radiators and they are Biasi. The Biasi sizes and outputs charts have two Btu columns: BTU's at 50k and 60k. There is a significant difference between the outputs. What does the 50k and 60k refer to and how should I ascertain which applies to my situation?

Link?

Is it possible the 50k/60k is 50c/60c? For water temperature (~= rad temperature).

Eurorunner

Originally Posted by Geegee
Loft cistern:
A rustling sound can be heard throughout the house when it is refilling. It takes about ten minutes after flushing the toilet and one hour after running a bath to refill. I have checked the pressure at the ball valve and it is very low even though the mains pressure is good - about 50 PSI. Can this pressure be increased?

I had this on my list. The refill time on all three WCs was unacceptable. Stick it down and let them call back the plumber to sort it out.

Radiator not getting as hot as others How can this be cured?

Probably just air - but stick it down.

Toilet cistern was leaking and plumber couldn't find leak but it seems the plumber poured some sealant into the cistern which appears to be dissolving
so the leak will re-appear in time. What is the solution to this leak?

What Victor says. Otherwise, tell them your not satisfied and demand it be fixed properly.

Sinks too high for pedestals

Two sinks have been installed slightly too high for the pedestals and the they have been wedged underneath at an angle. When it is flat on the floor the pedestal does not support the sink. Can the pedestal be packed underneath to bring it up?

Their fúckup - not yours. Again, your not satisfied and want it fixed (unless of course you still have to tile the floor yourself - in which case this would work out to your advantage.


Have you paid out yet? If you havnt, then you still have more power in terms of getting snags done to your satisfaction. With regard to most of these things, you don't necessarily need to understand why they are malfunctioning, ect. Once you determine that its reasonable to expect them to be fixed, slap it down on the snag list and make them put it right.

Geegee

Thanks for the detailed replies and sketch. It is a new house.

Check all the valves, etc. are open, if it is old pipework it might be be slightly blocked.

It is new with good mains pressure.

Is there a cover on the tank? Fit a cover and insulate the tank & cover.

The sides are insulated with a roll fibreglass wrapped around it. It does have a cover - would insulating this make a difference to the sound? Is the sound not just travelling down the pipe from the loft?

If it is old, it may either have air or silt in it. With the heating system on full, check what parts are hot and cold.

The radiator gets hot at the top two thirds of it but not as hot as the other rads. and not at the bottom third. It is also the furthest from the boiler.

how well is the house insulated?

Current building regs. - cavity wall insulation, two layers in the loft etc.

Link?

Is it possible the 50k/60k is 50c/60c? For water temperature (~= rad temperature).

The Pdf is 174kb so I can't upload it - is there another way of getting it to you?

Victor

Where is it on their site, just give me the hyperlink.

antoinolachtnai

It's always dangerous to disagree with rooferpete, but I would add the following:

Some radiators being hotter than the others may be air (in which case the bottom of the rad will be hotter than the top) or it may be that the radiators need to be adjusted, using the valve which requires a pliers to turn and which is not usually turned by the user. What needs to be done in my experience (I should stress that I am not a plumber) is that the valves on the hot radiators near the problem radiator need to be turned down, and the value on the problem radiator needs to be turned up. This will improve the distribution of water (and heat) between the radiators.

The reason this needs to be done is because some radiators on the system will inevitably get better pressure and flow than others, and so the valve has to be reduced to compensate. This is not a big deal to do if you know what to do. But in my experience, a lot of plumbers don't seem to bother with this level of finesse.

On the other hand, the fact that you feel the heating doesn't heat up the house may be just a result of the radiators heating more slowly than you expect. I would let the heat run for an hour or two and check it again.

Also, check the setting on the boiler to make sure it is not set very low. See if there is any obvious problem with the pump. (This is a hard one to ascertain without pulling everything to bits, but I recently heard about a house where one of the pumps had been installed the wrong way round.)

Not very many people seem to know this, but it is actually good practice to set up those funny little radiator valves so that the radiators only heat up over a longer period of time. Why? It's because by heating more slowly, the difference in temperature between the inlet and the outlet of the boiler is reduced. In an ideal world, the difference in temperature between the two pipes would never be more than 10 degrees, in order to reduce wear-and-tear on the heat exchanger. (I'm just going from memory with the figure and this certainly isn't something I get involved with regularly.) Again, this is something that is usually overlooked - as far as most householders are concerned, the faster the radiators heat up when you press the button, the better.

As for the noise-in-the-tank problem, one possible solution is to have the water run down along something, rather than having it fall into the tank from a height. There may be an issue with this as far as the regulations are concerned, you would need to ask a plumber. (Of course this does nothing to remedy the issue with the tank filling slowly, which it is important to address. By the sounds of it, if you draw a bath and run a sink at the same time, you will run out of water, and this is obviously unacceptable.)

These all seem like problems that can be fixed though - good luck with the new house, I hope you will be very happy in it!

Geegee

Where is it on their site, just give me the hyperlink.

It was sent to me via email in pdf format. It isn't actually on their website.
I can email it to you if you wish or if there is an alternative way, I will do that.

Borzoi

Geegee wrote:

RADIATIOR SIZE
What does the 50k and 60k refer to and how should I ascertain which applies to my situation?
.

It's the temperature difference (TD) between the radiator (average) and the room measured in degrees Kelvin. A degree Kelvin is the same size as a degree Centigrade

Typically the rads should have an average water temp of about 70C, so a 50K TD would be appropriate for a standard room about 20C

If your rads had a higher temp of 80C then you would be right to use the 60K TD

pipers

Loft cistern:

Replace ballcock with an equilibrium type. Be prepared to pay for this.

HW pressure:

You could fit a pump, but my gut feeling is that the taps supplied are suited for areas where normal working pressure is far greater than the normal gravity system here (this is very common). I would suggest that you replace the taps with a more appropriate type.

Toilet overflowing into waste

Normal

Radiator not getting as hot as others

Get the system balanced/commissioned by a competent plumber.

Toilet leak

Dont know without seeing.

Sinks too high for pedestals

Is your floor tiled?

Geegee

Typically the rads should have an average water temp of about 70C, so a 50K TD would be appropriate for a standard room about 20C

If your rads had a higher temp of 80C then you would be right to use the 60K TD

How do I ascertain which temperature and how is this set?

the faster the radiators heat up when you press the button, the better.

They heat up remarkably fast - within a few minutes - but I have to check that the heating is on at times as it never seems comfortably warm. When I do the radiators are very hot to touch.

charlesanto

pipers wrote:

Loft cistern:

Replace ballcock with an equilibrium type. Be prepared to pay for this.

HW pressure:

You could fit a pump, but my gut feeling is that the taps supplied are suited for areas where normal working pressure is far greater than the normal gravity system here (this is very common). I would suggest that you replace the taps with a more appropriate type.

Toilet overflowing into waste

Normal

Radiator not getting as hot as others

Get the system balanced/commissioned by a competent plumber.

Toilet leak

Dont know without seeing.

Sinks too high for pedestals

Is your floor tiled?

It is probably an advantage to have this space. When you go tiling you'll need this space. Me like a dumb-ass put your problem on my snag. Now i'm gonna have to remount the sinks to accomadate tiles...:(

rooferPete

Hi Antoin......

No danger that I can see especially on this question since I didn't post

.

Geegee

What I have noticed when there is a build up of pressure in the toilet bowl ie the cistern water is trapped by the toilet contents , there is a gurgling sound from the shower tray when it does clear - is this normal?

antoinolachtnai

rooferpete oh sorry i had screens overlapping or too many windows open or something.

Geegee, that toilet and shower don't sound acceptable to me. Probably just blocked.

Happy new year.

Borzoi

Geegee wrote:

How do I ascertain which temperature and how is this set?
.

Use a thermometer, measure thw water temp at rad inlet, water temp at rad outlet, the average should be close enough. The overall water temp is normally adjustable at the boiler, turn the thermostat up basicly

Victor

Geegee, did you get someone to snag your house professionally?

Geegee wrote:

What I have noticed when there is a build up of pressure in the toilet bowl ie the cistern water is trapped by the toilet contents , there is a gurgling sound from the shower tray when it does clear - is this normal?

The gurgling is probably because they don't have a soil vent pipe.

The soil vent pipe allows air into the sewer pipe to prevent the "plug" of water from the WC sucking the water from the trap in the shower (which seals the traps preventing air from the sewer entering the bathroom).

Geegee

The gurgling is probably because they don't have a soil vent pipe.

Just checked, yes there is one. This only happens when there is a build-up in the toilet bowl before it disappears.

Use a thermometer, measure thw water temp at rad inlet, water temp at rad outlet, the average should be close enough. The overall water temp is normally adjustable at the boiler, turn the thermostat up basicly

I've got a digital thermoneter and a mercury one for medical use - could one of these be used? If so, should it be taped to the copper inlet/outlet pipe?

Victor

Geegee wrote:

I've got a digital thermoneter and a mercury one for medical use - could one of these be used? If so, should it be taped to the copper inlet/outlet pipe?

Don't use the medical one, it will probably blow at 50 degrees. Use one that is suitable from -10C (in the attic) to +100C (for the rads). Some kitchen thermometers might suit.

rooferPete

Hi,

What you have described with the shower is the water trap is being syphoned by the toilet when flushed because as Victor pointed out the soil stack is not venting the waste pipes properly.

This can happen when the waste pipe is very long or fitted to the soil stack below a bend where the air pressure from above is restricted.

It could also be caused by a rise in the waste pipe, there are solutions available but if I were in your place I would have a proper snag list drawn up by a qualified person.

If you wish to send me your location by PM I may be able to recommend a professional to you, (not me).

.

Geegee

Victor wrote:

Don't use the medical one, it will probably blow at 50 degrees. Use one that is suitable from -10C (in the attic) to +100C (for the rads). Some kitchen thermometers might suit.

I haven't got one so where should I get one and how should it be attached to the radiator? By the way, did you get the PDF?

Geegee

If you wish to send me your location by PM I may be able to recommend a professional to you, (not me).

Hi Pete, did you get my PM?

Don't use the medical one, it will probably blow at 50 degrees. Use one that is suitable from -10C (in the attic) to +100C (for the rads). Some kitchen thermometers might suit.

Had a look today in hardware shop but could not find one that went above 50c. Again, where would I get one and how would it be attached to the rad.pipe? If i get a professional to do a snag list, is rad size/output something that he/she ould assess?

Also, on that subject, would it be down to me or the builder to foot the bill for the snag list?

Eurorunner

Geegee wrote:

Also, on that subject, would it be down to me or the builder to foot the bill for the snag list?

Yours.

Victor

Geegee wrote:

I haven't got one so where should I get one and how should it be attached to the radiator? By the way, did you get the PDF?

Geegee wrote:

Had a look today in hardware shop but could not find one that went above 50c. Again, where would I get one and how would it be attached to the rad.pipe? If i get a professional to do a snag list, is rad size/output something that he/she ould assess?

Geegee wrote:

Also, on that subject, would it be down to me or the builder to foot the bill for the snag list?

The snag list is for you to pay for, the builder will need to foot the bill for the physical work. Only if it got to the point of suing the builder would you be demand the fee from him.