Fingal Co. Council...bad news

larrymo

Hi all

I just some really bad news.

As some of you know, I had submitted plans to build a detached house on my corner site in Castleknock to Fingal County Council for pre-planning approval. They have come back to us saying that they would not approve these on basis that we would affect property lines to the rear of us (despite fact that there are no houses directly behind us). When I phoned the planner responsible, she was very defensive and did her best not to answer any questions. She then came up with other excuses such as our house would be too imposing for the site (despite fact that it is same size as our principal residence next door); then she said we'd be cutting the garden in half and that would be out of sync with other gardens (again despite fact that our garden at moment is twice size of other gardens in the area).

What's really galling is that we had already received planning permission 3 years ago to build an extension to the side of our existing house, which would certainly affect any property lines at the back and would certainly have been imposing!!!

She said I was welcome to submit formal application but it would probably be the same situation.

Has anyone had any problems with Fingal Co. Council lately. I thought they were encouraging higher densities in Dublin? Anyone any ideas what I should do....certainly with the amount of work myself and the missus have done (not to mention our architect, who himself can't understand their decision), I certainly feel we should submit a formal application anyway.

I hope all of you out there have a much better Christmas than I'm having at the moment!!!! And a Happy New Year too!!!


larrymo

lomb

higher densities arent encouraged in mature residential areas. they are viewing it as overdevelopment probably, and justifying it by saying visual amenity will be affected by the mass of a new house. in fairness, if u wish to procede hire a planing consultant to compile a list of recent decisions by fingal council in the area as there is precedent in this. also get the planning consultant/ architect to submit a brief of how u propose to mitigate the loss of visual amenity. u will need alot of info and skill to obtain planning and im afraid this is not going to come cheap and its a gamble also but thats land development for u, tis risky business but is good business also or can be:)

larrymo

Thanks for reply, Lomb.

I note what you say. I think it's worth it to try and get a good consultant to go through everything we have here. The development we live in is fairly new (our house was one of the first ones built in 1998), so I don't think it could be classed as a mature development, but I stand to be corrected.

As things progress over the next few months, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers for now and have a great xmas!


larmo

Ginger83

Two things, do you not think the developer of the estate would have applied for an extra house if he/she thought this would be possible at the time.
Look at it from a planning officer's point, first they could see you as a speculator wanting to fire up a quick house beside your and sell the lot, yours and the new one to make a quick buck.

On the other hand if you want to help your case I agree with the consultant idea, find a similar development in your area where the same has been achieved, approach the property owners behind you and ask would this be subject to an objection from them and then and prove you have a genuine housing need for this property. Either way I would suggest you have a go at it, planning laws are getting stricter all the time, what do you think they will be like in 3-5 yrs. Best of luck with it.

lomb

larrymo wrote:

Thanks for reply, Lomb.

I note what you say. I think it's worth it to try and get a good consultant to go through everything we have here. The development we live in is fairly new (our house was one of the first ones built in 1998), so I don't think it could be classed as a mature development, but I stand to be corrected.

As things progress over the next few months, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers for now and have a great xmas!


larmo

well put it this way, u will not get planning without putting a case forward from the beginning, at the moment there is no on record prejudice to your application. if u apply with a set of plans formally and its turned down, then thats it, it will be on record for eternity and so is a material consideration against it.
do it right from the get go. hire a good consultant/architect, trick is finding one, might be an idea to create a seperate post, im sure people in the trade know good people. alternatively question your architect as to his experiance with compiling briefs for this sort of thing. talk to your neighbours and get their support, preferably in writing, this is worth more than gold, trust me. you def need something to show how u will mitigate the loss of amenity. ie similar look to adjacent houses, similar finish etc. drive around look for newish house on corner sites within that councils remit and read their applications. my advise is to hire 2 people, firstly an architect, secondly a reputable planning consultant. planners are professionals, and put weight in the thoughts of professionals in the same business. many planning consultants are ex planners. remember that..if the consultant thinks uve got a good case, i would skip the outline planning and go for the jugular with a full aplication. this shows uve put more time and money into it and from a human point u are more likely to get it. there a little to think about anyway.happy xmas to u also:)

larrymo

Hi all,

Thanks for all replies so far. I haven't let this ruin my Christmas but it certainly has put somewhat of a dampener on it. I will definitely put in for full planning and will certainly get the services of a good planner to do as much as possible, as well as our own architect.

I will be going around to my neighbours (both to the side of me and behind us) and asking what they think of our plans and, if possible, whether we can get letters of approval from them.

Just a few planning questions to those of you out there in the know:

I wonder, if this is rejected by Fingal Co. Council after I put in for full planning, what's the chances of an Appeal to An Board Plenala being successful? Do they normally agree with the council planners or are there instances where they would overturn a decision? Also, would be worthwhile putting in the Application that this house/site will be used by our children who were born and brought up in the area as their home?

Not sure if that actually works with Fingal County Council, however if it's worth trying, I'll do it.

Again, thanks to everyone who've taken the time to reply to this thread.

Cheers!

Larrymo

lomb

I wonder, if this is rejected by Fingal Co. Council after I put in for full planning, what's the chances of an Appeal to An Board Plenala being successful? Do they normally agree with the council planners or are there instances where they would overturn a decision?

40% of the council decisions are overturned i believe, something around that figure anyway both for and against!. an board plenala are a strange bunch tbh, they stick to the letter of the law, ive read many cases where planning has been given by the local council( in one case for a medical surgery and due to an objection has been overturned. and they voted against it even when it had passed planning at at the local council and not only this an board pleanalas own inspector recommeded giving it!!! the board voted against it 2-1 because strickly speaking a multisurgery practice isnt to be encouraged in a area zoned A. however this is healthcare we are talking about, and not only that no ones amenity was going to be affected. the house was on .5 acre with loads of parking and on a public transport route somewhere in blackrock. its just the neighbours were crackpots and objected to everything(report stated a hbistory of objections by them on that property and the applicant commented on it even! the moral is the council will tend to do whats in locals interests(ie healthcare/housing need/jobs), board pleanala will stick to the letter of the law and dont give a monkeys about housing need/healthcare or jobs for that matter. in the uk they apply the letter of the law to every application with the weight very much on non development. the reason this is there is no appeal in the uk, once u get it, no one can take it away. in this country even if u get it, if someone objects they can appeal it and apply the letter of the law thru board plenala.

Also, would be worthwhile putting in the Application that this house/site will be used by our children who were born and brought up in the area as their home?

definately, it wont make a monkeys of a difference with an board pleanala but with the letters of support from neighbours and statement of mitigation of loss of visual amenity from architect/planning consultant and statement with LEGAL proof that there is no overdevelopment will add termendous weight to the application

larrymo

Thanks for all the info, Lomb. You certainly know your way around the planning circles....

I'll keep you all updated as we go. Keep your fingers crossed!!!:D

Cheers!


Larmo

beolight

any update on this?

larrymo

Hi Guys

Planning application has gone into Fingal Co. Council last week. Hope to hear within 6-8 weeks whether it will fly and have my fingers crossed. With the application I included references for other similar corner site developments within the Castleknock area; existing plans for our corner side to build up over our existing garage which were approved in 2002; a letter from one of our neighbours to the rear of us confirming that he had no problem with us building the detached house on the corner site.

Whew! D'ya think I have enough goin' into them????

Our architect thinks it will go thru, considering he's seen smaller corner sites than ours get permission, however after the pre-planning with Fingal before Christmas, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'll let you all know once the decision comes in.....cheers for now!

Lar