Pre Flop Strategies (Blues)

celticbhoy

NickyOD wrote:

You have 7.5 big blinds. What do you want to see a flop for? All in preflop is your only move, and your range of all-in hands should be very wide since you are the shortest stack.

Amaru wrote:

You shouldn't be looking to "see a flop" this short stacked, you should be looking to get it all in, hopefully as a favourite, no matter how slight, and see 5 cards. If you limp to see a flop, you've committed a good portion of an already small stack. What if the flop doesn't hit you? Then what? Fold? Also, suited cards, be it connectors or otherwise, lose most of their value when you're this short stacked, as you don't have the stack to make the implied odds worthwhile.

lenny_leonard wrote:

Something obvious which I dont think has been mentioned: You only have 7.5 BB's left, so playing tight is the worst thing you can do. Generally any time you decide to play a hand, you're moving all-in. And depending on circumstances, that hand could be as weak as 56o. HOH vol. 2 gives a very good overview of how to play in this situation. Read both HOH volumes, they will improve your game no end.

padser wrote:

A raise needs 5 people to fold. (3 limpers and 2 blinds). 90% chance each one folds. 59% chance all 5 fold. if you double the blind, over half the time you win 4.5 blinds. It makes no difference if you are holding AA or 72, you should be raising.

I can safely say the weakest part of my game is my pre flop strategy when my chips are low or getting low.

Most of the time I can never find the courage to go all in if blinds are getting big and my chip stack isn’t.

The main thing for me is the fear of loosing everything if someone calls my raise.

I do think if I raise too quickly I will look too eager and weak and a chip leader might call.

On the other hand if I take my time raising the all-in does it pass the notion that im unsure and maybe have a weak hand?

And if im playing tight all night and then go all in all of a sudden it might look as if im definitely bluffing and I will be called.

Now normally I play tight and rarely pay to see the flop unless I had a great starting hand. The last tourney I played in I was getting really bad hands all night and eventually the blinds had me robbed. It was actually someone else that put me all in, in the end, but I knew I should have gone all in long before that. It was such a bizarre game with very weak pairs winning hands. I even remember someone winning on a pair or threes after the river. And the amount of times I would muck a 4,5 or 6,7 off suit and then would have had a straight on the flop (moan). And in the same game I muck a King,x because someone raised a little and two kings come up on the flop (sigh).

So back to my original (however long winded) question…

Is there minimum starting hands you would go all in with, when your stack is getting low, to win some chips back?

And if it is the case that the question is too rhetorical because im leaving out the factors of betting styles of other players, and atmosphere at the table and other chip stacks, well then I apologise and take it that my question does not have a simple answer.

bmc

Your question doesn't really have a simple answer!

If a couple of tight players limp in and you're on the button or in late position then it might be correct to throw your 7.5BB in with any two cards and hope they fold. Even if the don't and you get called by AA or some other monster you will still win some of the time... (just like my KK not winning last night... :mad: )

Alternatively, if your table is pretty "active" with raises and calls all over the place in most hands then you should be a little bit selective about what you push with.

Ax and Kx usually aren't up to much... you are very likely to be called by an A or a K with a bigger kicker... Although, if it was folded around to you on the button... or late position, again... any two might be worth it and hey, an Ace or a King is a bonus...

If you find you're not getting many opportunities... Well, suited connectors start to look quite nice... The advantage of mid sized suited connectors (or in times of desperation, unsuited connectors or almost connectors...) is that if you get called by AJ, AQ, AK, KQ, etc... your cards are still very much live... you have a roughly 40% chance in a lot of those situations. Against an overpair, well, that's a bit less fortunate but you've still got your straight and flush possibilities...

You've got to learn how different starting hands fare out against each other when all-in preflop...

Try the poker calculator at www.twodimes.net or www.thehendonmob.com or similar and run through a lot of different scenarios...


Ah Ac 77%
7s 8s 23%


Ah Kc 58%
7s 8s 42%


Ah Kc 71% (There'll be a tie the missing% times...)
Ac 9s 24%


Ah Kc 45%
7s 7c 55%


Ah Ac 80%
7s 7c 20%

Culchie

celticbhoy wrote:

So back to my original (however long winded) question…

Is there minimum starting hands you would go all in with, when your stack is getting low, to win some chips back?

Celtic, buy Harrington on Holdem, seriously it will help clarify alot of things for you, best 25 or 30 quid you will ever spend.

Anyways, your question .... when you are in trouble, you can't afford to be the least bit fussy.
You are never as far behind in poker as you think preflop .... 7 8 V AK is approx 40/60 .... so just stick em in there when you are down to 7 or less blinds. Some people say 10.

The only criteria I try and stick to, if I am pushing with muck is that I want to be first into the pot. I'd also prefer to push with 'live cards' e.g 7 8, 9 10 etc... (even 2 4:D 5starpool) rather than Ace Rag, because your caller will normally have an Ace so you are playing with just one card.

.... and lose the fear factor. When you are at this stage of your tournament life, you are going out very soon unless you do something about it.
Play within your bankroll, and you should have no fear.

So you can go out with a whimper, or you can fight your corner.

Robbing the blinds can mean increasing your stack by 20/30% .... getting a caller can mean doubling up .... all good news !

5starpool

Culchie wrote:

Celtic, buy Harrington on Holdem, seriously it will help clarify alot of things for you, best 25 or 30 quid you will ever spend.

Anyways, your question .... when you are in trouble, you can't afford to be the least bit fussy.
You are never as far behind in poker as you think preflop .... 7 8 V AK is approx 40/60 .... so just stick em in there when you are down to 7 or less blinds. Some people say 10.

The only criteria I try and stick to, if I am pushing with muck is that I want to be first into the pot. I'd also prefer to push with 'live cards' e.g 7 8, 9 10 etc... (even 2 4:D 5starpool) rather than Ace Rag, because your caller will normally have an Ace so you are playing with just one card.

.... and lose the fear factor. When you are at this stage of your tournament life, you are going out very soon unless you do something about it.
Play within your bankroll, and you should have no fear.

So you can go out with a whimper, or you can fight your corner.

Robbing the blinds can mean increasing your stack by 20/30% .... getting a caller can mean doubling up .... all good news !

24 is a great hand, as is 69s which I won a near quadruple up pot with last night.

To the OP, as the lads are saying, if you only play with your cards, and not with your situation (chips remaining, position, opposition, previous actions on the hand) then you will be a long time waiting to win.

This might also sound like a sound bite, but if you look confident and assured (not cocky) in general in the tournie, then you get more respect I feel. Weak and passive is probably the worst image you can give out at a table in live play, you will get walked all over.

Poker isn't all about starting cards (although they help a fair bit ), it's about perception. If you look like you are going all in with a hand you hate you will likely get called. As is suggested above, Harrington is a great read for pretty much most levels of players to either show you techniques, or validate ideas and playing styles.

Good luck with it, and remember, nothing beats experience at the tables (as long as you feel you learn stuff every time).

BigDragon

Limit: Your cards.
No Limit: Others cards.

mewso

I think the important point when you are this low (below 10BB say) is that the cards are not important. There are 2 reasons to push once you get low. One is to ensure your stack is still large enough to force marginal hands to fold and second is that if you are called and win you will end up with a decent stack. Let your stack dwindle and your all-in will be called then if you double up you may still be in trouble.
So to answer your question my minimum all-in hand with a low stack is xx

Amaru

BigDragon wrote:

Limit: Your cards.
No Limit: Others cards.

This is the best way to play NL, but for a beginner, i think its the wrong advice. It takes a long time to be able to figure out what an opponent might be holding, what betting patterns mean what, etc. A beginner should be looking to play a very simple game, ie, good starting hand, using very simple betting patterns, and playing position. Get the fundamentals right first, and then start getting into the really sexy stuff, like guessing your opponents hand and raising them off top pair with garbage.

Lplate

musician wrote:

I think the important point when you are this low (below 10BB say) is that the cards are not important. There are 2 reasons to push once you get low. One is to ensure your stack is still large enough to force marginal hands to fold and second is that if you are called and win you will end up with a decent stack. Let your stack dwindle and your all-in will be called then if you double up you may still be in trouble.
So to answer your question my minimum all-in hand with a low stack is xx

As you play this game more and more, this advice will make more and more sense. As Culchie pointed out, usually you're never as far behind as you think and when you're short luck is where you're at.