Jack High. What do I do?

Ballyman

Just wondering what I should have done here.

This was €50 PL game. Blinds €1/€2. I hadn't been at the table long and had around €120 in front of me.

Dealt QcJd in BB. Two limpers and then fold around to me. I raised to €10 and button folds. Limpers call.

Flop is 28J rainbow. I bet out €25. Villian in early raises all in for €61. Mid folds and I stop to think! It will cost me another €61 to call which would reduce my stack to nothing and mean going home time. On the other hand if I call and win I would be able to sit back and play more premium hands.

I was only at the table 10 minutes but this guy had already gone in over the top and won with out showing his hand. Other than that I have no info on the guy.
I'm not playing very long and €200 is a lot of money to me so throwing away money just to "see" a hand is not an option for me.

What do I do??

Amaru

Just to be clear, he check raised, yes or no?

karlh

Ballyman wrote:

I call and win I would be able to sit back and play more premium hands.

QJ is far from a premium hand.

if you're at a full table, raising 5xbb with QJ and carrying on the hand like you have aces is suicide.

unless you're just in the hand for a quick gamble i think you have to drop it. you ask the question with the €25 bet and get an answer. if you can't fold here, when can you?

you built the pot to start with your preflop raise.

flat call preflop, bet the flop and then you can either call him down or get away cheap.

of course there's nothing wrong with raising preflop but with QJ you really just want to take the blinds.

De Deraco

in that game its a bad raise preflop and not to bad on the flop, the reraise means auto-fold.

Ballyman

Amaru wrote:

Just to be clear, he check raised, yes or no?

No. I was BB so first to act and bet out €25.

Ballyman

karlh wrote:

QJ is far from a premium hand.

What I meant here was that I would be able to just play premium hands for a while, not necessarily QJ!
I am still learning!
This particular table was bonkers anyway. There was three guys in particular throwing away money on rubbish. Reraising and calling with bottom pairs for €2-300+ and losing regularly to each other.
Villian wasn't one of these guys however. When he turned over what he had I was sickened, to say the least I was sorry I hadn't been a bit more of a gambler rather than trying to play!

BTW, I did fold!!

Amaru

QJ off is a horrible hand to try play(and especially raise with) from the blinds. I think Karl said pretty much everything that needed to be said about the hand.

Ballyman

So when would I raise with QJo if it was limped into me? Is there a place to raise with this or is it just a flat call regardless?

These didn't seem to be the kind of people who would slow play anything so I was fairly sure there was no pocket pair doing the rounds as they had raised with everything from 24o to AA so far. These guys seemed to be gamblers rather than trying to play poker.

Anyway, Mr. Villan turned over Js6s. Like it was a good hand.

Samba

I was going to ask a question but refrained. I'll do so now, was this the fitz cash game? If it was I would be inclined to call. He is either on a weaker kicker or 109

Most likely a welll established member of the get your gamble on/Draw monkey club.

Ste05

Ballyman wrote:

Anyway, Mr. Villan turned over Js6s. Like it was a good hand.

I assume you called????

Ballyman

I know what you mean!! This was the SE. It used to be a bit more relaxed with more people trying to play poker but recently it's become a no holds barred **** all your money into pot and hope for the best fest!!

I eventually flopped a nuts straight (I had AK) and with two all in callers with junk I went home happy with €300 profit. If I had €10K one of these muppets would have called with 22. Mores the pity!!

Ballyman

Ste05 wrote:

I assume you called????

Unfortunately not
Would you have?

karlh

Ballyman wrote:

This particular table was bonkers anyway. There was three guys in particular throwing away money on rubbish. Reraising and calling with bottom pairs for €2-300+ and losing regularly to each other.

this is exactly the table to tighten up on and take them out with some nice hands. it is very tempting to get involved with something slightly attractive like QJ/K10/KJ etc but against a loose table you want better starting holdings than this. patience is paramount.

The Rock. :v:

Ste05

Ballyman wrote:

Unfortunately not
Would you have?

Not too sure, it would depend on whether the re-raise was another €61 or just €61 total, if it was the latter it's only another €36 to call and the pot is €75ish , in which I'd say yes it's a call.

But if it's another €61, meaning it's €61 to call a pot of €75ish, I'm not so sure, it would depend on what the villian had done previously, where the game was, your table image, had you folded to a re-raise before?? Although with your description of this guy as a bit of a maniac fish gambler, maybe... I think it's very much a "you had to be there moment".....

Even though I think you played it OK, (based on the fact that you raised Pre-Flop) I would have preferred if you just checked your option on the BB though, a lovely concealed hand to play with from the BB.

Sorry I can't be clearer, but it's just a difficult decision. He could have very easily have trips or a badly played over pair. A very difficult decision. And TBH I think the fold was fine too.

Having said all that, I'm not a frequent Live player (occasional Fitz visit, but more often than not while drunk) so I'm probably not the one to ask about Live plays......

RoundTower

karlh wrote:

this is exactly the table to tighten up on and take them out with some nice hands. it is very tempting to get involved with something slightly attractive like QJ/K10/KJ etc but against a loose table you want better starting holdings than this. patience is paramount.

The Rock. :v:

terrible advice. against a loose table just overplay your top pair hands and you'll win money.

This assumes you're a competent player. Playing tight is decent advice to bad players in this game, since if the other players are bad enough you can make a small amount of money by sticking to very strong hands, but not to anyone taking the game seriously.

Waylander

I agree with Karl. If there are alot of fast loose players at a table, sitting back and choosing your hands is a much better strategy.