3 Omaha scenarios

NickyOD

I'm not much of an omaha player being from Limerick where everyone thinks of the the Beach before the cardgame. In fact any time I've sat down at the round of each tables in the Fitz I can be seen scratching my head looking very disturbed and uncomfortable but perhaps that's not all that unusual. Anyway I've started playing a little Ohhh Mahhhh Harrrr online and I'm doing quite well at .50/1 but I'm certain I'm no match for any above average Omaha player so I need some good reading material. I hear there is a way to score your starting omaha hand. i.e 2 points for single suited, 4 for double suited, 2 for an ace, 2 for suited connectors etc etc. or something like that. Does anyone actually do that and if so how do I do it. Also when the **** should I raise preflop?

Here are 3 scenarios I also need your highly valuable opinions on.

1) 3 players limp and you check on the BB with T-T-A-7 single suited. The flop is K-T-6 with 2 hearts and I don’t have one. The SB who is an average player bets pot. What do you do and why? Does you play change if you have the Ace of hearts but with no other heart.

2) You are dealt 8-8-A-2 and limp in the cut off. After 2 others. Everyone else behind you comes in to the unraised pot and the flop is J-J-8 rainbow .Everyone checks to the player on your right who you have no info on. He bets the pot. What do you do and why?

3) Is my preflop reraise correct in this scenario?

***** Hand History for Game 3229728612 *****
$100 PL Omaha - Monday, December 19, 20:06:41 EDT 2005
Table Table 65090 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: NickyOD ( $128.35 )
Seat 2: IGreatOne ( $100.10 )
Seat 10: teddyraay ( $48.55 )
Seat 6: amoneyman ( $58.07 )
Seat 7: monsodm ( $143.50 )
Seat 8: homeboy46 ( $89.50 )
Seat 9: Decksx ( $100 )
Seat 5: NOURY ( $386.40 )
Seat 4: tjesser ( $100 )
teddyraay posts small blind [$0.50].
NickyOD posts big blind [$1].
tjesser posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NickyOD [ Ac 3h Ah Jc ]
IGreatOne folds.
tjesser checks.
NOURY calls [$1].
amoneyman raises [$4].
monsodm calls [$4].
homeboy46 folds.
Decksx calls [$4].
teddyraay calls [$3.50].
NickyOD raises [$25].
tjesser folds.
NOURY calls [$25].
amoneyman calls [$22].
tjesser: whoa.
monsodm calls [$22].
Decksx folds.
teddyraay folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, Ts, 6c ]
gammmon has joined the table.
NickyOD checks.
NOURY checks.
amoneyman is all-In [$32.07]
monsodm calls [$32.07].
NickyOD folds.
NOURY calls [$32.07].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
NOURY bets [$206.21].
monsodm folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
NOURY shows [ Ks, 7s, Ad, Jd ] a flush, king high.
amoneyman shows [ Th, 6h, Kd, Td ] a full house, Tens full of sixes.
NOURY wins $206.21 from side pot #1 with a flush, king high.
amoneyman wins $206.21 from the main pot with a full house, Tens full of sixes.

Marq

1) Raise. Yes to your play changing if you hold the ace of hearts. In this case I would call but I am raising the turn 99 times out of a hundred.

2)With no read, I often call the small flop bet. With a raise preflop, the pot is oftentoo big to call with an underfull on the flop. Underfull's are muck in Omaha. I tend to fold them an awful lot - possibly giving up some equity, but as I see it, when you lose with them, you will usually lose big, and it's very rare that you get paid off if they are the best hand.

3)Raise is fine.

Lafortezza

1) 3 players limp and you check on the BB with T-T-A-7 single suited. The flop is K-T-6 with 2 hearts and I don’t have one. The SB who is an average player bets pot. What do you do and why? Does you play change if you have the Ace of hearts but with no other heart.

Raise pot, you don't want the other limpers getting value on QJxx or a heart draw and if SB has KKxx so be it. Having the Ace of hearts means I click 'raise pot' a little bit faster.

2) You are dealt 8-8-A-2 and limp in the cut off. After 2 others. Everyone else behind you comes in to the unraised pot and the flop is J-J-8 rainbow .Everyone checks to the player on your right who you have no info on. He bets the pot. What do you do and why?

Fold preflop. If the A2 is suited I still fold but might call if there's loads of limpers depending if button or blinds are aggressive preflop. It's a crappy hand.

On that flop I sometimes fold but at the $100 tables on Party I'd generally raise pot in this situation. Depending on Villain he could be betting a naked J or some combination of draws. If he calls then bet pot if checked to when turn is lower than an 8, other wise try to see a cheap showdown or fold if he continues betting.

3) Is my preflop reraise correct in this scenario?
Dealt to NickyOD [ Ac 3h Ah Jc ]

Pot is roughly $100
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, Ts, 6c ]
gammmon has joined the table.
NickyOD checks.
NOURY checks.
amoneyman is all-In [$32.07]
monsodm calls [$32.07].
NickyOD folds.
NOURY calls [$32.07].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
NOURY bets [$206.21].
monsodm folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]

Preflop is fine, terrible flop for you with so many callers. Autofold. If flop gives you a flush draw stay in for the $32 and pot odds decide the turn for you.

NickyOD wrote:

I hear there is a way to score your starting omaha hand. i.e 2 points for single suited, 4 for double suited, 2 for an ace, 2 for suited connectors etc etc. or something like that. Does anyone actually do that and if so how do I do it. Also when the **** should I raise preflop?

You should raise a large variety of hands preflop, big pairs, 6789, A6s78, 99TT. I raise all of them and more from late position. In early position I tend to prefer to see a flop before getting jiggy. Position is very very important in Yamaha. It's so easy to bluff from the button on a scary board with air. At the tables up to PL$100 most vaguely coordinated hands are playable. After that the tables are alot more aggressive preflop and you have to get more choosy. I don't know about that scoring system for starting hand since alot of the time table dynamics dictate what you'll get away with playing.

Since I'm on night shift I'll continue rambling.
Raising hands: AAxx, KKxx/QQxx nicely coordinated like QQJTss, with bare KKxx or QQxx I'll usually fold in EP or call for set value.
'Wrappy' hands like 789T, as low as 4567 if suited and table isn't too tough.
I rarely raise AKQT type hands unless ds and the table is tight.
Double pair hands like 8899 only usually from LP.
Suited Ace plus wrappy Ad7d8x9x.
Hands like 56TJds or AK78 are muck.

Most important thing in Omaha imho are position and aggression. Since the nuts crop up so often you can bluff scare cards alot when in position.
You have to make continution bets alot since giving a free card is about the worse thing you can do. You raise AAxx in MP, 2 callers behind. If the flop is T64 you should pot, if the flop is KJ2 you should pot. If you're not prepared to continue the aggression then you should just play AAxx for set value and limp to spike an Ace.
If you are raising (and showing) a variety of hands and not just big pairs then when someone plays back at you they'll usually have a better hand.


Edit: Sample of hand history where I played an underfull quickly.

RoundTower

1. Raise. With the ace of hearts, maybe just call, but probably raise. Definitely raise if the SB will go broke with bottom set.

2. Raise. By far the most likely hand for the bettor is a lone Jack, when you are well ahead. Most players will not rereraise you, or bet into you on the turn, without a made full house, so you will know when to muck your hand.

3. Raise is good. In general you don't want to play a medium sized multiway pot with only aces. Here you have aces double suited so it doesn't matter what the preflop action is, you can raise again. You can even call the flop here getting better than 5-1, people show up with the oddest of hands for their last $32.07.

These would be my standard responses -- all of these questions depend on stack size. You will find that stack size is more important in PLO than in NL holdem cash games.

edit about the starting hand requirements: there are point count systems you can use. I think they make you think about the game the wrong way, and you shouldn't use any of them. They might be of some use playing hi/lo, but that's about it. Raise when you have a good hand and you are in position. Any kind of hand where the four cards work together, with at least one suit, is a good hand.

NickyOD

RoundTower wrote:

2. Raise. By far the most likely hand for the bettor is a lone Jack, when you are well ahead. Most players will not rereraise you, or bet into you on the turn, without a made full house, so you will know when to muck your hand.

That's what I thought. This hand came up for me in the fitz. To be honest I don't really remember what my other 2 cards were. I thought about it for quite a bit and figured I am a favourite over his most likely hand which is a one jack. He does not have J-J and only 2 ways to make J-8. I reraised putting him all in and my underfull held up but I was grinding my teeth with this one. I'd be interested to hear any other vies on that hand.

BTW I am really starting to love this ****ing game. Just look at these fools. Bruuuhahahahhaaaaa!

***** Hand History for Game 3230815784 *****
$100 PL Omaha - Monday, December 19, 23:02:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 65090 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: NickyOD ( $100 )
Seat 3: PKKSTANLEY ( $128.45 )
Seat 4: mattcando_u ( $147.05 )
Seat 5: Bluffer9 ( $117.05 )
Seat 6: omamaha ( $36.05 )
Seat 7: RamboFighter ( $99.80 )
Seat 8: aug_met ( $140.45 )
Seat 1: Firefox002 ( $15.50 )
Seat 9: eh101 ( $46.10 )
Seat 10: teddyraay ( $50 )
eh101 posts small blind [$0.50].
teddyraay posts big blind [$1].

Dealt to NickyOD [ Ac 4h 5h 6c ]
Firefox002 folds.
NickyOD calls [$1].
PKKSTANLEY folds.
mattcando_u calls [$1].
Bluffer9 folds.
omamaha folds.
RamboFighter folds.
aug_met folds.
eh101 calls [$0.50].
teddyraay checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, 3d, Kc ]
eh101 checks.
teddyraay checks.
NickyOD bets [$3.80].
mattcando_u calls [$3.80].
eh101 calls [$3.80].
teddyraay folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
eh101 checks.
NickyOD bets [$14.65].
mattcando_u calls [$14.65].
eh101 is all-In [$41.30]
NickyOD is all-In [$80.55]
mattcando_u calls [$80.55].

** Dealing River ** [ As ]
NickyOD shows [ Ac, 4h, 5h, 6c ] a straight, two to six.
mattcando_u shows [ Qc, 6d, 9d, 9c ] a pair of nines.
eh101 doesn't show [ Ad, 5d, 4d, 3c ] a straight, ace to five.
NickyOD wins $107.80 from side pot #1 with a straight, two to six.
NickyOD wins $136.30 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

***** Hand History for Game 3230869003 *****
$100 PL Omaha - Monday, December 19, 23:10:40 EDT 2005
Table Table 65302 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: omamaha ( $12.15 )
Seat 3: chasingdew ( $90.65 )
Seat 4: Boink67 ( $111.99 )
Seat 6: bestlucky ( $313.48 )
Seat 8: africa1 ( $79.30 )
Seat 10: NickyOD ( $99.30 )
Seat 9: testcast ( $101.60 )
Seat 5: gusgj ( $99 )
Seat 7: stacy80 ( $20.75 )
Seat 1: OhNo ( $100 )
testcast posts small blind [$0.50].
NickyOD posts big blind [$1].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NickyOD [ 5h 7d 8d 3d ]
chasingdew calls [$1].
Boink67 folds.
gusgj calls [$1].
bestlucky calls [$1].
stacy80 calls [$1].
OhNo has left the table.
africa1 calls [$1].
testcast calls [$0.50].
NickyOD checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 6s, Qs ]
testcast checks.
NickyOD checks.
MrDetermined has joined the table.
chasingdew checks.
gusgj bets [$6.65].
bestlucky folds.
stacy80 folds.
africa1 folds.
testcast folds.
NickyOD calls [$6.65].
chasingdew folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
NickyOD checks.
gusgj bets [$19.30].
NickyOD raises [$77.20].
gusgj calls [$57.90].
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
NickyOD is all-In [$14.45]
gusgj is all-In [$14.15]
NickyOD shows [ 5h, 7d, 8d, 3d ] a straight, two to six.
gusgj doesn't show [ 7s, As, Th, 3s ] a pair of aces. WTF??????
NickyOD wins $0.30 from side pot #1 with a straight, two to six.
NickyOD wins $200 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

RoundTower

NickyOD wrote:

That's what I thought. This hand came up for me in the fitz. To be honest I don't really remember what my other 2 cards were. I thought about it for quite a bit and figured I am a favourite over his most likely hand which is a one jack. He does not have J-J and only 2 ways to make J-8. I reraised putting him all in and my underfull held up but I was grinding my teeth with this one. I'd be interested to hear any other vies on that hand.

BTW I am really starting to love this ****ing game. Just look at these fools. Bruuuhahahahhaaaaa!

If you can put him all in the decision isn't even close (see what I meant about stack sizes). Good to see you're doing well, I finally put some money into All in and am doing about half of it (bad bankroll management possibly as well as bad play). At least Oscar should be making money off me...

Lafortezza

NickyOD wrote:

He does not have J-J and only 2 ways to make J-8. I reraised putting him all in and my underfull held up but I was grinding my teeth with this one. I'd be interested to hear any other vies on that hand.

With an underfull you're generally in a race if Villain is in any way decent and doesn't already have a made house.
If the flop is 883 and you have 33 then you'll nearly always get action from ATJ8 since he has the nut non-house with A8 and could be ahead or have alot of outs to win.

Dealt to NickyOD [ Ac 4h 5h 6c ]

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, 3d, Kc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
NickyOD shows [ Ac, 4h, 5h, 6c ] a straight, two to six.
mattcando_u shows [ Qc, 6d, 9d, 9c ] a pair of nines.
eh101 doesn't show [ Ad, 5d, 4d, 3c ] a straight, ace to five.
NickyOD wins $107.80 from side pot #1 with a straight, two to six.
NickyOD wins $136.30 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

Flopping monster draws in large multiway pots is never a chore I recognise a few of those names from playing the $100 tables and none of them are any good

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 6s, Qs ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
NickyOD is all-In [$14.45]
gusgj is all-In [$14.15]

gusgj doesn't show [ 7s, As, Th, 3s ] a pair of aces. WTF??????
NickyOD wins $0.30 from side pot #1 with a straight, two to six.
NickyOD wins $200 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

Nut flush draw + nutshot is usually worth a gamble!