Species of timber not suitable for UFH

qazxsw

Hi folks,

I seem to remember reading a post somewhere recommending that certain types of timber be avoid when it comes to UFH - but obviously can't find it now. :-(

Has anyone any comments on what SPECIES of timber are NOT suitable over ufh...

Ta

patrido

according to rappgo, it's beech and maple

kadman

patrido wrote:

according to rappgo, it's beech and maple

Why these two particular species,

Kadman

patrido

they expand and contract more than other hardwoods

kadman

patrido wrote:

they expand and contract more than other hardwoods

Hi Patrido,

I would be interested in your link for that info, as my information differs somewhat, as you can see from the table.

kadman

patrido

http://www.rappgo.se/eng/floor_heating.htm

patrido

though when i look up the coefficient of expansions for hardwoods, beech is is the highest alright, but maple is less than oak... much the same as your table.

kadman

Thankyou,

I'd be very interested in peoples experiences with wooden floors fitted on floors with UFH.

The small print has a lot of areas for consideration, and may not always be apparent from the outset, who is responsible if the floor gives problems in the future.

kadman

yop

So based on these tables lads, have I made a bad mistake buying semi solid oak for our UFH?

patrido

i'd like to hear what kadman thinks on this, but my own view is that it's not necessarily bad to use oak. after all it is quite commonly used with ufh, and junckers and rappgo guarantee their oak floors for use with ufh.

also, a semi-solid should be more dimensionally stable than a solid, and especially less prone to twisting.

it does highlight the need to be careful with installation. the floor must have freedom to expand and contract, the house (especially the screed) must be at normal moisture levels, wood acclimatised (depending on the manufacturers instructions), etc. after installation, start the heating at a low level, and ramp up slowly over a couple weeks. again refer to the manufacturer and be conservative.

the amount of expansion and contraction for a given species is dependent on the variation in moisture content of the board, between on and off, and between heating and not-heating seasons. if you use setback controls, so the system is never really off even in summer, you reduce the amount of moisture absorbed, and should reduce the amount of expansion.

and if you've made a big mistake, then i've made one too as i'm putting in junckers solid oak. and their guarantee probably wont apply because of something stupid like i'm not the seventh son of a seventh son

qazxsw

Thanks for the info lads,

very interesting.

I'm thinking of glueing the boards to my concrete floor. The only adhesive I've come across for this was for SikaBond which costs an arm and a leg.

Has anyone heard of BonaBond S760 which I came across on the Web ( a quick google will find it for you) costs an arm and a leg also in UK but can be sourced very cheaply from Poland...

http://www.parkietpol.republika.pl/cennik.html (search for "Bonabond klej S 760 25kg" klej = polish for glue

Getting Windows and Kitchen from Poland too b.t.w. ....

kadman

After looking at the tables and recommendations, I'm more inclined to think that the timber reccomended or otherwise, may be more associated to availability of the timber, moreso than nthe characteristics.

Its strange that Birch has not been highlighted as a timber with large movement characteristics, similar to oak, by Rappgo. Maybe its because scandinavian countries have an abundance of it, and it is used widely for joinery, floors, construction of furniture ect. So why write off your largest source of good timber, from a scandinavian point of view.

Methinks there may be a bit of politics afoot here.

I am of the opinion that any species of hardwood is suitable for any form of flooring, ufh or other wise. I am inclined to believe that proper forms of installation, and adherence to manufacturers advice in fitting, will guarantee the best chance of success. And properly prepared solid timber , as opposed to lesser quality products are a must.

Quartersawn boards, if using solid, are far superior to tangental or radial cut boards. They have less movement across the grain, and movement will tend to be more stable. Radial cut boards will cup, twist and warp. So you really get what you pay for.

I think it would be extremly hard to conform to all the criteria set out to validate your guarantee any way. Too many unknown variables there, and ready to go floor installers, so keep your fingers crossed, and maybe your toes.

kadman:)

Tobi2

Hi all
This timber floor thing seems a bit of a minefield.
I am more confused than ever.
Went to look at Junckers today and loved it of course.
Prices:eek: :eek: .....

Does it pay to shop around for Junckers or are they priced similarly all over?

Re ufh, this may seem very stupid but please humour me...
The guy in a local store (Zafira flooring man) said to lay this floor we should lay a polythene/plastic sheet, to prevent moisture rising, then the foam underlay then the timber floor and that was it.

The Junckers guy today, said there is a special underlay that comes for floors with ufh from Junckers, that prevents moisture rising but lets the heat through.
He said, I think, that you should not lay plastic sheeting as this prevents heat getting through..
He did not know what the special underlay (Junckers) was made of though.

If you have heating under plastic, does this not create a "sweat" type effect..so creating more moisture under the floor??

Also, if you find good quality solid/semi solid flooring for less than the cost of Junckers is it not an option then to buy the SPECIAL underlay and use that and work away with your lesser priced floor?

Does it pay to pay more at this stage for eg Junckers, and have the guarantee and peace of mind, or is the product really higher quality or are we paying for a name and nought else??

Please someone.....help

Tobi

kadman

Hi Tobi2,

I would try to source the correct installing procedure of the various typres of floors , direct from the manufacturers data sheet , or their website. Shop assistants may not be the best source of information for fitting instructions.
After all they are really there to sell.

I think you need to adhere to each company's fitting instructions, if you are to stay within their guidelines in case of a dispute further down the road.
There is no sense in trying to recoup money saying , " well kadman told me on the boards..blah..blah "

I think any info you get here should be regarded as a guide to the general approach, of floor installing.

Good quality flooring, will always give a better performance than a lesser quality product. But a good product , poorly fitted, is no better than a poor product, well fitted. Definitely well fitted flooring, will last long, and look the part. So get the best you can afford, and the best fitters as well.

I think you should check out the company websites, to see who do you sell your soul to , to stay within the guarantee guidelines.

kadman

kadman

yop wrote:

So based on these tables lads, have I made a bad mistake buying semi solid oak for our UFH?

Well depending on how you fixed it down, a 3 foot nail bar, and a spade are ideal tools to prise up your oak floor. And you should make good headway over the xmas break.



Whoooaaahh.......I'm only kidding.

You can sleep safe Yop. Semi solid flooring, although more often than not backed with spruce. Tend to have a good quality heavy prime timber on the surface. A spruce backing, as you know, allows you to have the beauty of the oak on the surface, at an affordable price. Laminated timbers in relation to flooring are every bit as stable as quartersawn boards, as the laminating procedure keeps the individual boards straighter. A semi solid board, would be more stable than radial cut oak, IMHO.

So enjoy your oak floor. Any progress on the door.

kadman:)

Tobi2

Hi Kadman
Thanks for quick reply.
I understand what you are saying and agree.
We are not normally so taken with sales reps and if truth be told I think self build lethargy is setting in.
We are so near and seem yet so far from finishing, add to that new baby due early Feb so time is of the essence. We are like minnows to these sales reps, looking for quick/easy solutions to what are big decisions and ones that will pay us back one way or another.

Thanks so much for your reply, the wood is clearing I think so I am beginning to see the trees...or should that be the trees are clearing so I can see the wood......
You get my drift.

Regards
Tobi

rooferPete

Hi Tobi,

I don't know which shop you went to about Junckers Flooring but I have to agree with you the answer you got was confusing to say the least.

I have Junckers floors and I must say it has done everything expected of it and more considering the abuse it got.

There is a Lady in Brooks Thomas on the old Naas Road who seems to be the expert on Junckers flooring for Brooks Thomas.

I can't recall her name but I'm sure the rest of the staff know her, maybe a phone call before you think of travelling.

Their clip system must be about the best available for floating floors and I am sure they are no strangers to UFH.

.

charlesanto

My brother installed semi-solid oak over UFH glued - No problems to date but has only been laid 3 months.