pub tourney's, the fitz, and ppp - an xmas rant!

ditpoker

i am reasonably new to boards.ie but I have noticed that the the same complaints keep coming up, some I agree with, some I dont....

pub tournaments:
i was having a browse through the bad beat section, and there is alot of complaints about people being outdrawn on the river by a lesser hand by obviously a lesser player and a good player would not have been in the hand, for example "i had my AA broken by some fool holding 75 who hit an 8 on the river to give him a straight, i'm never playing in a pub tourny again! LONG LIVE THE FITZ!" what we dont here is that the fool hit 467 on the flop giveing him top pair and a open ended draw and the AA had limped and the 75 was the BB... equally, yes there are some SH*T players in pub tournaments, these people are just adding to the prize pool. I've played many pub tournaments, and done well in them, maybe I'm one of those fools who plays 75o. and why is it that a really REALLY good poker player will win a pub tourney regardless of how poor the field is? same goes for student games, there are some bad players, but there are also some good players, and in pubs and colleges at the final two tables it is always, ALWAYS the same faces. If you get knocked out of a tournament it is not the cards that beat you, it is the players. Maybe you were'nt agressive enough, maybe you played too tight to avoid these bad players and when you did get outdrawn u had no chips left. Yes tournaments in the fitz and the merrion and now the SE are a higher standard, but equally there are some BAD players there too. I have played in the sunday 30 game in the fitz on a few occasions and there are some stone cold text book players there who are so arrogant and so confident in their ability that they have never been beaten by a better player, only by worse players who dont know what they are doing. the truth is, i would gladly play against one of these card-jocks from the fitz than an unpredicatble rash inexperienced boozed up pub tourney player. The pub player could play anything, but you know the "pro-to-be" at the fitz is playing nut hands....

the fitz, the merrion and the se:
on top of what i have said above, credit must be given to the above 3. they do run great tournaments, they have the facilities and people know your face after a few visits, its good PR. without doubt the standard is higher, people are more respectful of raises and position, and chip stack. as i have said i play the fitz and the se, but I also play out in pub tournaments. its a different type of game, requiring a diffierent skill, a different style of play. Phil Ivey says if you can win NL Texas Hold'em events in your sleep but cant last 5 minutes in Omaha HiLo, or 7Card Stud, or 8orBetter, you are not a good card player... equally I'd add that if you cant compete in both casinos, online, AND pub tourney's, then you are not a good Texas Holdem Player!

PPP:
i'll be the first to criticise based on the number of bad beats i have given and taken on Tribeca tables... but I'll be the first to advocate their use as bad beats are also part of the game... it happens... often with some frequency. and tribeca tables cater for all bankrolls, they are easy to negotiate and as gameplay goes they pretty much have every angle covered. its user friendly and they have a wider variety than alot of big name sites. keep up the good work PPP!



i'm sure some will agree and some will disagree...
and please dont point out spelling erorrs!

careca

ditpoker wrote:

i am reasonably new to boards.ie but I have noticed that the the same complaints keep coming up, some I agree with, some I dont....

pub tournaments:
i was having a browse through the bad beat section, and there is alot of complaints about people being outdrawn on the river by a lesser hand by obviously a lesser player and a good player would not have been in the hand, for example "i had my AA broken by some fool holding 75 who hit an 8 on the river to give him a straight, i'm never playing in a pub tourny again! LONG LIVE THE FITZ!" what we dont here is that the fool hit 467 on the flop giveing him top pair and a open ended draw and the AA had limped and the 75 was the BB... equally, yes there are some SH*T players in pub tournaments, these people are just adding to the prize pool. I've played many pub tournaments, and done well in them, maybe I'm one of those fools who plays 75o. and why is it that a really REALLY good poker player will win a pub tourney regardless of how poor the field is? same goes for student games, there are some bad players, but there are also some good players, and in pubs and colleges at the final two tables it is always, ALWAYS the same faces. If you get knocked out of a tournament it is not the cards that beat you, it is the players. Maybe you were'nt agressive enough, maybe you played too tight to avoid these bad players and when you did get outdrawn u had no chips left. Yes tournaments in the fitz and the merrion and now the SE are a higher standard, but equally there are some BAD players there too. I have played in the sunday 30 game in the fitz on a few occasions and there are some stone cold text book players there who are so arrogant and so confident in their ability that they have never been beaten by a better player, only by worse players who dont know what they are doing. the truth is, i would gladly play against one of these card-jocks from the fitz than an unpredicatble rash inexperienced boozed up pub tourney player. The pub player could play anything, but you know the "pro-to-be" at the fitz is playing nut hands....

the fitz, the merrion and the se:
on top of what i have said above, credit must be given to the above 3. they do run great tournaments, they have the facilities and people know your face after a few visits, its good PR. without doubt the standard is higher, people are more respectful of raises and position, and chip stack. as i have said i play the fitz and the se, but I also play out in pub tournaments. its a different type of game, requiring a diffierent skill, a different style of play. Phil Ivey says if you can win NL Texas Hold'em events in your sleep but cant last 5 minutes in Omaha HiLo, or 7Card Stud, or 8orBetter, you are not a good card player... equally I'd add that if you cant compete in both casinos, online, AND pub tourney's, then you are not a good Texas Holdem Player!

PPP:
i'll be the first to criticise based on the number of bad beats i have given and taken on Tribeca tables... but I'll be the first to advocate their use as bad beats are also part of the game... it happens... often with some frequency. and tribeca tables cater for all bankrolls, they are easy to negotiate and as gameplay goes they pretty much have every angle covered. its user friendly and they have a wider variety than alot of big name sites. keep up the good work PPP!



i'm sure some will agree and some will disagree...
and please dont point out spelling erorrs!

Interesting thread. I've never played in a pub tournament apart from a game with mates in a pub, so I can't comment on that. I would think that most fellows here would agree that there are bad players in every casino in Dublin and lots of us could be included in that list. What most posters here give out about it the % taken by the organisers of pub tournaments.

i would def agree with you that lots of players in the bigger games think they are far better than what they are and could be in for a rude awakening, but alternatively there are some excellent young (and old) players around who have all the attibutes to make it big.

And as for your spelling

hotspur

I was having a discussion with someone over the weekend about the quality of players and its relation to one's chances of beating a table. We concluded that in order for a quite a good player to have an advantage at a poker table then the players must be playing at least some kind of poker.

In order to test this out I played about 7 play money sit n go's on Saturday on Pokerstars, full of players from the Pokerstars.net free play site. I didn't win any of them, and only placed in 2. The thing is it wasn't poker as a skill game it was poker as a game of random luck. There would be an all in at least every 2nd hand, so either you didn't throw your hat in the ring and waited while other players got to 3 times your stack, or you jumped in and flipped coins like the rest. As a skill game poker is about playing your opponent or at least playing the hand you think he has, but that disappears if the players don't care what hand they have, they're sticking it in anyway.

This is a more extreme example of the pub tourny. The pub tourny table is more beatable than a play money sit n go, but the bad blind structure / starting chips, the utter morons that you sometimes get at the table, the fact that almost no "poker" is being played, the frustration of not being able to capitalise on knowing what others players have, and being ripped off on prizmoney I think probably makes for a less enjoyable experience of the game of poker for a lot of the players who play in the casinos who love the game.

But I'd say you're probably right about a lot of the casino players not having the talent that they believe they have. I think that is true of a large % of the participants in any competitive game, mostly it's just people who really enjoy it and do it a lot, genuine natural talent tends to rare in games such as poker.

Ardent

hotspur wrote:

We concluded that in order for a quite a good player to have an advantage at a poker table then the players must be playing at least some kind of poker.

In order to test this out I played about 7 play money sit n go's on Saturday on Pokerstars, full of players from the Pokerstars.net free play site. I didn't win any of them, and only placed in 2.

Interesting theory. But flawed - you are assuming you are a good poker player!

Skyclad

Or that he is really awful, and performed average

kincsem

Everyone thinks they are a top-class player.....:)

.....until they try to play at a higher level.


The problem is trying to figure out how good you are.

Luck clouds your results. Are you a good player having a bad run or are you a bad player in an average run? Or a bad player having a good run or a good player having an average run? Perhaps part of the difference between a good player and a bad player is the ability to assess your own play / results.

hotspur

kincsem wrote:

Everyone thinks they are a top-class player.....:)
.....until they try to play at a higher level.
]

Or try play money apparently

Lousy play money players think they're so big mumble grumble, show them, show them all, click click.