programming career

Owen101

Hi, been browsing around these groups for a few days to get a feel for the 'current state of play' re programming and working as a programmer in general in ireland at the moment. Definitely seems to be more than an air of negativity towards it at the moment.

Anyway as a 31 year old returning home from a year in oz, and thinking about what Id like to do with the rest of my life, I figured Id like to pursue a career in programming. Ive a diploma in info systems from trinners I did back in 2000 so I figured a logical step would be to try and get into 2nd or 3rd year (if v lucky) as a mature student in one of the prominent computer science degree courses in Ireland - DCU, UL or LIT,DIT etc I reckon.

Ive being doing various localisation roles up til now which has been ok but a total dead end to be honest. Grand to get a bit of cash together but thats about it. Ive had opportunities every now and again in work to do vb, asp and web projects which I really liked so would probably like to focus on that and maybe look at asp.net or c#.

Considering my age, time & cost involved do ye think committing to 1 or 2 more years for a computer science degree would be worth it in order to get into some development roles ? Would I be better off doing some certified development course (not cheap) that focuses on specific skills such as c# or java? What ye reckon?

Working overseas wouldnt be a problem for me if there were opportunities to be had.

Sorry for the rambling post but am giving this very serious thought so would like to be sure whatever I do now is worthwhile (reap what u sow and all that).

thanks

bigbadcon

Look into IT Tallaght if its near you.I just finished a Computing Degree there and its regarded as one of the best computing courses in Ireland.

When it came to interviews almost everything i did there was highly regarded when looking for graduates in development that lots of courses didnt do.

Owen101

Thanks, will check it out. Might be a bit off the beaten track.

Anyone here got any opinions of the computing courses in Limerick I.T or the Software Development course there in particular?

They quote 'a high pass' rate in their blog which might suggest the course is too easy (compare to say DCU computer apps.) ?

McGintyMcGoo

In my opinion, I think that certificates are a short term goal that work fine for a lot of IT related jobs, but not so much for programming. In my experience, employers look for programming experience and more often than not you need a degree to get the interview in the first place. Although if the reported lack of IT students becomes a serious issue, it will very much become an employees market.

Is you diploma in IS now reclassified as an ordinary degree??

If I was you, I would continue with my studies for my degree in the evenings. In two/three years time, you'll feel a whole lot better.

McGintyMcGoo

Collumbo

I'd go along with the Tallaght IT guy. I left there with the degree in 2000. I still use stuff today that we covered in 3rd year more than anything else... subject was Advanced Databases and is probably the most relevant if you ever do DB development.

Back then, they were really flexible about what you used for 4th yr. project... we were encouraged to use stuff that wasn't covered in the college.

irishguy

Owen101 wrote:

Thanks, will check it out. Might be a bit off the beaten track.

Anyone here got any opinions of the computing courses in Limerick I.T or the Software Development course there in particular?

They quote 'a high pass' rate in their blog which might suggest the course is too easy (compare to say DCU computer apps.) ?

I am currently doing applied computing in LIT 4th year (or information systems as its called now). So any questions you have let me know. With your diploma in info systems you would be eligible for entry into 4th year of this course (as its a cert-> diploma->Degree course). Which is probely the best thing for you as it will only take you a year do get a degree. There isnt much programming in 4th year though (some .net,prolog and java if you do it as an elective).

The software devlopment course your asking about is a straight 4 year course with work experience in the second half of 3rd year. To do this they would make you go back to 3rd year and it would take 2 years to get a degree, but you would do alot more programming there (C++ with some java).

Personally i think the software devlopment course is better if your doing the full 4 years but in your case the 1 year in applied computing might be better.

frost

Hi Owen,
Since it sounds like you are thinking in terms of a career rather than just getting a series of jobs, I would feel strongly that the more general the course you do, the more prepared you will be for any development challenge you are faced with. The concepts I learned in my mid-1980's BA in Computer Science are still useful in development work I do now. The specific technologies we used (e.g. PL/1, Lisp, 68000) aren't useful to me now, but the degree treated these as just a means to an end in learning the concepts (database theory, analysis of algorithms, systems architecture, design, testing, etc).

I can't recommend specific educational courses in Ireland because my degree is from the USA, but when I was a hiring manager interviewing developers, I preferred candidates who had the concepts, over those who only had the specific skillset I needed. I figured that people can more easily be cross trained in a new language, rather than trying to teach them basic principles. I still think that's true.

However, that is my view, and you will of course find lots of managers out there who disagree and would prefer to just hire the best skills in VB.NET, C#, Java or whatever.

Good luck, whichever direction you take!

Owen101

Nice one, thanks

shamrock2004

McGintyMcGoo wrote:

In my opinion, I think that certificates are a short term goal that work fine for a lot of IT related jobs, but not so much for programming. In my experience, employers look for programming experience and more often than not you need a degree to get the interview in the first place.

If I was you, I would continue with my studies for my degree in the evenings. In two/three years time, you'll feel a whole lot better.

McGintyMcGoo

Couldnt agree more. The degree seems to be the stepping stone. I did computer applications in DCU and am looking for my first programming job at the moment. Not having any luck though (Have a 2.1). Experience does seem to be paramount.If i were you i would most definately do and evening course as mentioned.Take a look at the DCU computer applications course. Its comprehensive and at the same time, very demanding. They offer an evening course too! Hope you make the right choice for you! Best of luck!.

djmarkus

DIT's honours degree computer science course has 6 months work placement which is a big plus with employers. and its a good course in general.

um7y1h83ge06nx

djmarkus wrote:

DIT's honours degree computer science course has 6 months work placement which is a big plus with employers. and its a good course in general.

8 month work experience in UL's courses. Extremely handy when it comes to getting a job. The place I did my work experience (or co-operative education as they like to call it) took me back straight after my degree as a Software Engineer.

Stugots

Nolan Rancid Hangman wrote:

8 month work experience in UL's courses. Extremely handy when it comes to getting a job. The place I did my work experience (or co-operative education as they like to call it) took me back straight after my degree as a Software Engineer.

Strongly agree - I also graduated UL (long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away) and found that the co-op experience was invaluable both as a CV filler and something to talk about at interviews. You final year project would also be an important talking point.

I have worked with extremely competent software engineers who do not have degrees. The lack of qualifications on paper makes it more difficult to move jobs and so their bargaining power is limited at review time. Almost every advertised software job in Ireland (and certainly every one with good €€€€) requires a degree in comp Sci or related discipline. Most SW jobs are advertised through dumb recruiters who just check boxes from the job spec. If the employer says degree required, you won't get past the first hurdle even if you have great experience. As such, I would highly recommend that you bite the bullet and get that necessary piece of parchment now.

Proxy

I might be biased 'cause i'm in here myself, but a number of people have told me the degree in software development in GMIT Galway is one of the best all-rounders in the country. I can't speak from personal experience though since i'm in the IS course. That and the bachelor in IT in NUIG.

Go Galway Geeks!:cool:

irishguy

Proxy wrote:

I might be biased 'cause i'm in here myself, but a number of people have told me the degree in software development in GMIT Galway is one of the best all-rounders in the country. I can't speak from personal experience though since i'm in the IS course. That and the bachelor in IT in NUIG.

Go Galway Geeks!:cool:

It doesnt look that technical, its more like a Business and computing degree with the large amount of business related modules it has. Compared to Software Devlopment in LIT or comp sys in UL

Beta2

I'd recommend go for least an honours degree.

Most companies have HR departments that simple scan through your CV looking for keywords. They typically rank CV's interms of academic qualification. They choose who gets the interview, then after that its up to you to sell yourself.

I have a M.Sc. in Software Engineering, Since getting it I've been asked to interview by every company I've applied to.

I did my B.Sc. in DIT, I found it excellent and was the best course for me. I generaly see that IT's are favoured in the specific development jobs while Uni's are favoured for more general roles. Someone earlier posted that "Tallaght" offered the best degree, well thats the first I've heard of that! There is no really bad or really good degrees on offer. It doesn't matter where awarded your degree, its all about your FYP. If you know what kind of job you want tailor your FYP to suit, work really hard at it, cos it is more important than the final mark in your degree.

bpmurray

You want to get a good degree from a University (rightly or wrongly, more highly regarded than an IT), preferably at least a 2.1 or 1st, or, better still, a MSc or PhD.

As Beta2 said, getting to the interview is the really difficult part, i.e. getting through the HR filters.

run_Forrest_run

a well organised and structured CV will give you a great chance (assuming you have the qualifications) to get thru the HR filter...99.9% of HR are clueless airheads anyway and wouldn't have a clue about IT...sure they probably came from some failed recruitment agency in the first place...hey, guess what? I don't like HR