Criminals copying car's details

dogg_r_69

After reading about about the other thread about dangerous drivers, I thought of what a work colleague told me during the week. His father was told the week before that from guard that his car had been copied. What he was told was the there a group of russians doing this They'd bring in a car from England or wherever, drive it round till they find another car the same colour and year and change the plates copy the tax disc and insurance disc Then when they get parking tickets or speeding fines they're all sent to the"real owner". How he found out this was he was away for the weekend in Galway when "his" car got a parking ticket in Tipperary But he got the hotel he was with to look at the security camera so to verify to the Gurads he was actually there. The guards advised him to get rid of the car because they probably won't find the fake car till it's involved in an accident or something

Silvera

dogg_r_69 wrote:

The guards advised him to get rid of the car because they probably won't find the fake car till it's involved in an accident or something

But that will only pass on the problem to some other unfortunate driver ?!

Unfortunately, I reckon we are going to see a lot more such scams in the coming years due to the influx of so many eastern europeans/nigerians etc
(N.B. - I'm not being racist, just 'telling it like it is'!)

dogg_r_69

Silvera wrote:

But that will only pass on the problem to some other unfortunate driver ?!

That's what the guards recommended him to do anyhow

TempestSabre

I say use bus lanes and park anywhere. Not as if the Guards are capable of finding the car is it?

Savman

Silvera wrote:

I reckon we are going to see a lot more such scams in the coming years due to the influx of so many eastern europeans/nigerians etc

Why of course! No Irish person has ever scammed anyone.. :rolleyes:

BrianD

Silvera wrote:

But that will only pass on the problem to some other unfortunate driver ?!

Unfortunately, I reckon we are going to see a lot more such scams in the coming years due to the influx of so many eastern europeans/nigerians etc
(N.B. - I'm not being racist, just 'telling it like it is'!)

Yeah, it's not as if we weren't doing this before ourselves. Silvera you're a disgrace and a racist. Open your eyes.

On the same topic, I recall a story where somebody discovered the twin of their car in the same multi story car park. When they reported it the guards the Garda said he was too busy with other crimes. There was an opportunity to nab the other car's driver but the Gardai declined.

Dogg_r_69 Did the Gardai really advise him to 'get rid' of his car or did you just make that bit up?

mike65

This is the second topic today in which race has reared its head.

From now on will everyone think for a moment about what they are typing.

If someone is a bad driver or a scammer or whatver has pissed you off write about the miscreants in terms of thier cultures or attitudes which is what gives rise to thier behaviour, its got bugger all to do with where they are from or the colour of thier skin.

Mike.

Silvera

BrianD wrote:

Yeah, it's not as if we weren't doing this before ourselves. Silvera you're a disgrace and a racist.

I can assure you that I am neither a "disgrace" or a "racist".

Tell me, when has there been a reported case of an Irish person 'cloning' an Irish vehicle for everyday use ?
Really, I'm curious .......there may well have been some cases of this but (as a person with an interest in all things motoring) I don't recall hearing/reading about such a case.

And, yes, Irish people have been involved in their fair share of scams, but we all know that a certain African country is almost in a league of it's own when it comes to scams .....and certain new EU members (and their big neighbour's) criminals aren't far behind.

astec123

Silvera is correct in what they have said but to be honest they are incorrect in the way they said it. There is no need to tar everyone with the same brush. Yes a majority of scammers tend to come from these places but not everyone from them is like that 99.99% are honest and genuinly work legitimately, just the .000000001% that are assholes.

My advice to the OP is to get the person to register their car as off the road and get another motor for a few months, drive the other one till the clones found. Tell them to get it in writing that they wont be using it and give it to their solicitor.

Other things I have heard suggested to combat this are to get new plates that are customised in some identifiable way eg. some boarder that distinguishes them from the clone. That way if it gets caught on a GATSO you can prove it isnt you from the image. You will have a receipt.

lostinsuperfunk

Silvera, unless you have access to a large body of data on car cloning incidents in Ireland and the nationalities of the cloners, and have applied the correct statistical tests, you are in no position to make claims like that.

69 mustang

dogg_r_69 wrote:

After reading about about the other thread about dangerous drivers, I thought of what a work colleague told me during the week. His father was told the week before that from guard that his car had been copied. What he was told was the there a group of russians doing this They'd bring in a car from England or wherever, drive it round till they find another car the same colour and year and change the plates copy the tax disc and insurance disc Then when they get parking tickets or speeding fines they're all sent to the"real owner". How he found out this was he was away for the weekend in Galway when "his" car got a parking ticket in Tipperary But he got the hotel he was with to look at the security camera so to verify to the Gurads he was actually there. The guards advised him to get rid of the car because they probably won't find the fake car till it's involved in an accident or something

Back to the point at hand. One other reason why this may have happened is a Garda changes numbers to get a friend or family member of a ticket as they cant just rip it up once its written.
This happens as much as Silveras point.
Now there's a corrupt Irish one, so now can I mention the latest news story about the eastern Europeans and ATM's.:D

Capt'n Midnight

In the UK you need to present ID and proof of ownership to get license plates made. So instead of cloning they just nick plate. Like just about every thing else we are behind the UK - so if they have been trying to sort this since 2003 then we will get stung - also the UK actually enforce the law. perhaps crushing of any car with false plates ?

But unless they enforce the existing law and give fines out for plates illegible because they are covered in dirt, any thing the politicians say is just hot air. Just like the promises about sorting out the driving I'll believe it when it happens. Compare to UK -
http://www.aamotoringtrust.com/index.asp?pageid=31&newsid=69


Self Destruct Plates
http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=401&featureid=170&show=s8e9&section=Consumer
RFID Plates http://www.rfidnews.org/news/2004/06/10/rfidenabled-license-plates-to-identify-uk-vehicles/

Barcodes n' stuff Proposed http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/consult/vrm_security/vrm_security.htm
Results of survey http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/consult/consultee_rep_veh_num_plate_sec.htm

BrianD

Silvera wrote:

I can assure you that I am neither a "disgrace" or a "racist".

Tell me, when has there been a reported case of an Irish person 'cloning' an Irish vehicle for everyday use ?
Really, I'm curious .......there may well have been some cases of this but (as a person with an interest in all things motoring) I don't recall hearing/reading about such a case.

And, yes, Irish people have been involved in their fair share of scams, but we all know that a certain African country is almost in a league of it's own when it comes to scams .....and certain new EU members (and their big neighbour's) criminals aren't far behind.

Think about how ridiculous your story is.
1. Car stolen in England and driven to Ireland.
2. Stolen car drives around Ireland till a similar model and colour is located.

How long do you think it would take till the right Irish vehicle was located? As soon as the stolen car pops off the ferry and takes a spin around Rosslare.

You probably haven't heard about this type of crime before because the only thing that is putting abit of "talkability" into the story is the fact you can add those pesky foreigners into it. I recall one taxi firm that was running a duplicate fleet of their taxis on opposite sides of the city. I know of a guy who prints his tax disc in Photoshop. It's a crime that you rarely hear of because unless the "duplicated car" driver is a bad parker or speed merchant, he is unlikely to ever get ticketed and caught.

Now let's talk about the criminal minds of the Irish (all druken terrorists and well knows for their car bombs), the English (football hooligans), the Italians (mafiosas who I dare say have stolen a few cars in their times). Yada Yada Yada. Nationality or colour has no bearing on this type of crime.

dogg_r_69

BrianD wrote:

Dogg_r_69 Did the Gardai really advise him to 'get rid' of his car or did you just make that bit up?

That was actually what they said. Was a bit sickening for him, he only had the car about 3 months Still has it actually Hasn't got anymore tickets though

BrianD wrote:

Think about how ridiculous your story is.
1. Car stolen in England and driven to Ireland.

I didn't say stolen. What they were told was the cars are bought outside of Ireland & then brought into Ireland

_Kaiser_

What I don't understand is why the OP's colleague should be the one inconvienienced (by having to get a new car) and out of pocket (by taxing and insuring this new car) by this simply cause the gardai can't be BOTHERED to do their jobs??!!! :mad:

Of course the ideal solution is they actually DO what we pay them for, but given that they don't seem to care, the solution is fairly simple to me. As it's been proven that there's a clone of his car on the road, it should be reregistered and his insurance co and the tax office then issue him with new policy numbers/discs.

Is that not a lot easier?

Alfasudcrazy

Well I agree with Silvera - we are storing up many problems for ourselves if the rules and regulations in relation to non-nationals are not tightened up pretty quickly.

I hope nobody here is ever involved in an accident with any of these Polish or Latvian registered cars as it is my experience that practically all have no insurance whatever.

They also buy cheap Irish registered used cars again using them with no insurance or tax never mind NCT. They will simply abandon them and 'disappear' if caught or they will produce a Latvian certificate of insurance (of course written in Latvian) god knows if its valid.

If you ask why the car is still on Latvian plates they will state they are on holiday - despite having a permanent job here.
Its high time something was done - except the politicians can't say a word against them for fear of being branded a racist - which this thread proves -

Lets see things as they are people and stop living is our own rose tinted wonder world - it may be one of your own loved ones involved in an accident with them one day and then we will see then what your attitude is to non-nationals who blatantly abuse and ignore our laws. :mad:

mike65

I dont give a monkeys what the nationality is, thats why its irrelevant to me.
Unless it relates to a practical consideration, like fleeing back home leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

As for the law. Well, its there to be enforced but that feels like a moot point bearing in mind what we already know about that subject.

Mike.

Silvera

BrianD wrote:

Think about how ridiculous your story is.
1. Car stolen in England and driven to Ireland.
2. Stolen car drives around Ireland till a similar model and colour is located.

How long do you think it would take till the right Irish vehicle was located? As soon as the stolen car pops off the ferry and takes a spin around Rosslare.

Check again - I didn't start this thread!

Alfasudcrazy

Well if I bring an Irish registered car to Spain as I have done - my Irish insurance company informed me that I only had 30 days insurance with them.

After that period has expired I have to get Spanish insurance - and in order to get Spanish insurance I have to have it on Spanish plates.
In order to get Spanish plates I have to get it to pass the Spanish equivalent of the NCT.
Then I must get it taxed before I can finally insure it.

If I was able to do this in another EU country which even involved having to buy new headlamps as the Irish ones could not be converted to dip in the other direction so should Latvian / Polish car drivers.:mad:

BrianD

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

They also buy cheap Irish registered used cars again using them with no insurance or tax never mind NCT. They will simply abandon them and 'disappear' if caught or they will produce a Latvian certificate of insurance (of course written in Latvian) god knows if its valid.

If you ask why the car is still on Latvian plates they will state they are on holiday - despite having a permanent job here.
Its high time something was done - except the politicians can't say a word against them for fear of being branded a racist - which this thread proves -

Two things. The law of the land allows non-nationals who are contract workers here bring in their cars and drive them. It's a complicated proceedure but obviously do-able. Personally, I don't mind people bringing in their cars (for a defined period) but I think their should be some ongoing road tax contribution and a minimum level of insurance.

The second thing, there are plenty on Irish nationals driving with no or flawed insurance.

Silvera ... apologies for the mix up.

Why is this (and the other posting now closed) thread racist in nature? Posters in this thread have made spurious references to skin colour and/or ethnic orgin when describing a number of road traffic irregularities. There is no need for it. Yes, there may well be a perceived problems with the numbers of foreign registered cars on the roads. I wonder about them as well.

_Kaiser_

Whilst I agree with Mike that the individuals nationality should have no bearing on it, I can also see the point that Alfa is trying to make.

The Facts are that there are a lot of people (Irish and otherwise) out there engaged in various scams, but while it's OK (and I would say right) to highlight these situations when an Irish person is involved (I don't mean just here, I'm referring to Irish society and media in general), things become a lot muddier when a "non-national" is involved.

It's precisely because there is this "fear" of being branded a racist - and reading through some of these threads here lately, I'd say justifiably so - in such a situation, that these people can continue to get away with this.
Let's call a spade a spade folks (and no that's not a slur either, but ironically the fact that I have to actually type this little footnote is exactly my point) and just acknowledge that there are indeed SOME non-nationals (just as there are SOME Irish) out there engaged in illegal activities.

Just because someone relays an anicdote on a message board of an experience they've had and happens to mention the reg of the car/nationality of the driver, DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MEAN they're "having a go" at the entire population of that country... this is of course different from a situation where someone says "all those Dubs/insert random nationality here are the same - none of em can drive!"

I just think we all need to step back and stop calling each other names where it's not actually warranted so that we can discuss the matter at hand.

Silvera

Well said Kaiser 2000!

Too many people nowadays are afraid to even discuss topics that relate to non-nationals for fear of being labelled a "racist".

The fact of the matter is that the number of drivers on our roads with foreign reg cars (i.e. those living/working here) is an issue that needs to be discussed/dealt with before it gets out of control.

(Likewise regarding Irish people driving N.I/UK reg cars for months on end!)

junkyard

Just for the record, there are rumours flying around the motor trade that a lot of write-offs are being sold off by insurance companies at artifically high prices through auction. There can be only one use for a write-off at a high price in my opinion and that is "ringing" which means using the write-offs identity on a stolen car. Obviously I have no proof but I have a lot of friends in the auto-salvage business and they tell me that they can't buy cars for breaking at a realistic price anymore because of the insurance companies selling off the write-offs to the highest bidder. As we all know insurance companies are only interested in profit at the end of the day and the gereral public will foot the bill anyway.:mad:

mike65

Thats quite an accusation (not saying you're wrong though).

The lack of enforcement at all levels becomes more obvious the more one pokes around the margins of the motoring environment generally. Maybe its time for some well placed e-mails to journalists who cover this area and those who like to champions consumer issues or do investagative journalism.

Mike.

junkyard

Well Mike as I say I have no proof but I have come across a few dodgy guys buying write-offs in my time and wondered why they payed so much for a wreck in two or three pieces. One thing of note is that all the wrecks were very new and I certainly wouldn't put them back together as I didn't think it would be viable. The latest trend is for the insurance companies to collect the wrecks from the recovery service and auction them off to the highest bidder. I can see another Prime Time special on this matter at some stage. I don't think it would be too hard to trace. I'd imagine some of the stolen cars are coming from the U.K. Funnily enough a lot of the guys involved in this aren't even in the motor trade, they just set up shop overnight selling cars as a sideline.

mrbungle

Proof ?

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=13594

Alfasudcrazy

Of course its just a matter of walking into a motor factors here and ask for whatever number plate you require - this is a weakness in our registration laws which needs urgent attention.:eek:

Ratchet

Silvera wrote:

The fact of the matter is that the number of drivers on our roads with foreign reg cars (i.e. those living/working here) is an issue that needs to be discussed/dealt with before it gets out of control.

what the hell you are talking about?

i think you one of these guys which are allergic to anything that out of ordinary.

10 cars stolen and wrecked in blanch by local dudes but that’s normal, one car stolen by Russian dude and everybody remembers it.


You want proof of cloning ? oh come on and pop your head out of your balloon knot. Just because you didn’t see the numbers you don’t believe that it does exist.

Alfasudcrazy

I can't recall the name of the film but it was about these two Russian gangster’s in the USA and one of them said to the other

" I love the USA - nobody is ever responsible"

Its going like that here too - especially where non-nationals are concerned. Perhaps when we have a Russian type Mafia well established here people will come to recognise that not all non national's are the poor persecuted people they would like us to believe they are. :mad:

prospect

dogg_r_69 wrote:

The guards advised him to get rid of the car

Going back to this point:
My mothers Kia Sorrento was subject to a half-arsed theft attempt about 4 weeks ago, and needs a new back door as a result.
It is going in for repair today, but on saturday night it was victim to another robbery attempt, this time the front drivers & passangers doors were damaged, and the passanger door window smashed (funnily enough, nothing in the car was touched).

My dad reported the incident each time, but on saturday night the guards advice was "the car is unlucky, maybe you should change it". A 05 reg €40K car, and that is their best advice!!!!! :eek:

_Kaiser_

The Gardai don't care and I would argue have failed completely in their duties as the law enforcement body of this country, what with attitudes like that, corruption, and scandals being reported on a regular basis - and some of the stories I could tell you about one station in particular would sicken you (or you could just watch PrimeTime's report on antisocial behaviour in Coolock from a few weeks back).

Ironically however we are still expected and required to take them seriously and obey when they pull you over for trivial revenue gathering offenses like doing 53 in a 50 zone etc.

As I told one of them the other night. They'd be better off doing what we're all paying them to do rather than blocking up already perfectly working junctions in their annual token PR effort. Of course they're not alone are they? Every (semi) state organisation in this country (eircom, Dublin Bus, Dublin City Council etc etc) is filled with lazy, incompetent muppets whose "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude to work just sickens me
I guess it's cause I worked for several American multinationals that I know and expect better when dealing with someone in a customer-facing position.

(Note for balance - naturally not everyone employed by these bodies are like this, it just seems to be those that are most visible to the public that give this impression).

Victor

Actually this crime has long been carried out in this country by types with provo connections.

LostinBlanch

junkyard wrote:

Well Mike as I say I have no proof but I have come across a few dodgy guys buying write-offs in my time and wondered why they payed so much for a wreck in two or three pieces. One thing of note is that all the wrecks were very new and I certainly wouldn't put them back together as I didn't think it would be viable. .

Well I can tell a story about someone who bought a 2nd hand van from a respected dealer (I'm not naming names) who was stopped by the previous owner of the van who told him it's history i.e. that it was written off after a crash. So the van owner goes to the dealer repeats what he's heard and is immediately given a cheque for the price of the van!

While I realise that legally this is hearsay and not acceptable in a court of law as evidence, I do believe that this is a true story; as the person who told me has no axe to grind with any party in this matter.

So just be careful when buying 2nd hand (even from main dealers).

Capt'n Midnight

junkyard

The number plates look like diplomatic plates and the same number is put on all a particular countries fleet of vehicles.

jimb433

The best way to solve this would be

put the car on the Garda National Computer , as cloned. but ( important ) put the details of the real owner on at the same time. Im sure the real owner is not going to be bothered about a few minutes questioning at the side of the road, to proove who he is , meantime the crook will have a different ending. and wont be having a nice day

CrowdedHouse

Must be a record for a zombie resurrection