national poker stereotypes

ullu

Reading about the Grand Slam event got me thinking about national stereotypes. For example, Germans as a people are regarded as industrious and humourless, the French as romantics and the Irish as alcoholics. Obviously these are only age-old generalisations but they do have elements of truth to them, otherwise they would not be conjured up in the first place.

So applying this to poker, do you form any opinions of a player when you see their location? While most people might say "No, I base my first impression on their betting patterns and showed hands", the opponent's location will have some effect, even if it's a subconcious one. I recently opened a Doyle's Room account with a Swedish name, avatar, location etc. I have noticed that some players are more willing to call my bets down and have played differently against me on all streets even though I was playing the same people last week in the same manner on a different account. Another factor potentially influencing this is that my other online name (franz bopp) has a German ring to it so players I haven't played before may assume the aforementioned stereotype.

In my opinion, Israeli players are total fish. I have not played one solid Israeli on the Tribecca network ranging from $0.25/0.50 to $5/10 NL. They seem to call huge raises preflop out of position with marginal hands and don't give up missed or drawing hands until at least the turn. I have tried to find out the site of an Israel specific skin but have had no joy, I'd be interested to see their hold'em strategy guide!

So have you got any opinions (however ill-informed or valid) on poker players based on where they're from? Or do you believe that there's no such thing ; poker is a game where that sort of thing has no bearing?

mewso

I do have a tendency to see scandinavians as possible lunatics but expect them to know what they are doing. Gus Hansen probably has a lot to answer for here. I also often assume I will be able to out play any US players. Don't know why but I just don't rate many of them. I hope some PC idiot doesn't come on here and accuse us of being racist now.

As for the Israelis they were promised they'd win the hand by God.

jimbling

ullu wrote:

While most people might say "No, I base my first impression on their betting patterns and showed hands

if there's information there then it should be used. Location, name, age , fav book, poker story etc etc.... its all valuable information. Any assumption you make will be a generalisation obviously, but this does not make it useless info. You should assume that a player will play to a generalisation until you see something to prove otherwise (but be VERY open to altering that view).

Also people can lie with the specific purpose as to misguide players, but that's normally easy enough to spot after a few hands.

musician wrote:

I hope some PC idiot doesn't come on here and accuse us of being racist now.

this really is one of my pet hates..... the fact that people just can't seem to tell the difference between generalisation and racism/sexism/sectarianism etc etc.... bugs the crap outta me.

mewso

jimbling wrote:

this really is one of my pet hates..... the fact that people just can't seem to tell the difference between generalisation and racism/sexism/sectarianism etc etc.... bugs the crap outta me.

I agree and I don't think what we are discussing here could be construed as racism but I think it's worth noting that generalisation is very often racism in disguise. As I say not in this case.

ullu

No doubt someone will stumble across this topic from the main page and begin condemning poker for inherent racism and asking stupid questions like "Why has a black man not been allowed to win the World Series of Poker? Well, there's no smoke without fire....."

jimbling

musician wrote:

I agree and I don't think what we are discussing here could be construed as racism but I think it's worth noting that generalisation is very often racism in disguise. As I say not in this case.

well not really... if its racism in disguise then its still racism - not generalisation.

I assume what you mean is the guys who go around been racist, saying that there not - there just generalising. And I agree with you there, there is a lot of that going on. But I would be interested in hearing a few examples, although perhaps it would be better not to get into a debate on racism in a poker thread :rolleyes: ... we'll leave that for the humanities forum

Daithio

musician wrote:

I agree and I don't think what we are discussing here could be construed as racism but I think it's worth noting that generalisation is very often racism in disguise. As I say not in this case.

I don't think so Musician. Generalisation is completely necessary in poker and in life. The problem comes when you don't allow other factors to override your previous assumptions made through generalising.

What I'm about to say now will probably cause a bit of controversy, but I remember an argument that Michal Moore used in 'Stupid White Men' to show how racism is endemic in American society. It went along the lines of being afraid of encountering a black person walking down the street alone, but not being fearful in the same situation if the person was white. This would probably be quite true for most of us on American streets, but I don't think that it is necesarrily racism. The fact of the matter is that in America for many reasons you are more likely to be attacked or robbed by a black person than a white person. It's terrible that this is the case, and I don't think that this is the fault of the blacks themselves, but rather the dire social situations they've found themselves in. But to expect people not to generalise in such situations, and to claim that to do so is racism, is maybe just a little bit naive and unrealistic.

growler

jimbling wrote:

if there's information there then it should be used. Location, name, age , fav book, poker story etc etc.... its all valuable information.

.

I'll often check someone's age and would tend to give the elders more respect, rightly or wrongly. Maybe i should make myself 60+ hmmm

But i'd love to know what info you could glean from someone's fav. book / pet etc.

mewso

I agree with the examples mentioned about generalisations but I meant that it is sometimes racism because I have encountered it ("their kind never want to work for a living" etc.). Perhaps unfounded generalisations is a better way of putting it but anyway as has been said we don't want to turn in to the politics forum.

Daithio

musician wrote:

I agree with the examples mentioned about generalisations but I meant that it is sometimes racism because I have encountered it ("their kind never want to work for a living" etc.). Perhaps unfounded generalisations is a better way of putting it but anyway as has been said we don't want to turn in to the politics forum.

True enough. As regards poker most of the generalisations I make regard age and sex. I often give women and older people more respect.

Fatboydim

Anyone from Mayo is a nutter and if they go all in you should call them immediately.

DeVore

Che in the Fitz is chinese (or oriental, but I think Chinese) and benefits greatly from his kinsmen's loose image. He's carved from granite!

Since Poker is a relative game rather then an absolute one, good play in one country (or even isolated club) could be bad play in another. Calling with A9 might seem madness in America but is a good call in Sweden because of the types of players you are playing against.

So, if Sweden started off with loose players they would have "infected" other swedish players and the "norm" becomes "loose". In America it seems the be the opposite, they mostly play tight so the others play tight too.
(Don't mistake tight/loose for aggressive/passive in these cases).

Just a thought...

DeV.

BigDragon

County poker stereotypes. Theres a whole new forum on its own.

Culchie

lol ... Mayo keep falling short at the final table.

Dubs keep robbing the blinds

Cavan men won't put out their big blind .....

bohsman

Did you hear about American Airlines new deal?
Theyre giving out free haircuts!

Tom is Orient near China?

Coillte_Bhoy

Anyone from Mayo is a nutter and if they go all in you should call them immediately.

Ah i see you rememeber The Mouse Len. Well done on winning the ticket. Enjoy!

Coillte_Bhoy

lol ... Mayo keep falling short at the final table.

Dubs keep robbing the blinds

Cavan men won't put out their big blind .....

Roscommon players like to get naked around the green baize table

Dub13

Culchie wrote:

lol ... Mayo keep falling short at the final table.

Dubs keep robbing the blinds

Cavan men won't put out their big blind .....

... But

Louth men want to be Dubs...
Meath men want to be Dubs...
Kildare men want to be Dubs...

Notice a pattern,so they may act like Dubs.

I will add one.

Cork men are rebels and will Not do a deal,so dont even ask.

[edit] and if they are from Sligo chances are they are in a boy band [edit]