Motion for next SU Council - Capitated Bodies

foxybrowne

Here's a motion I might submit to the next S.U. council, anyone like to add to it, amend it etc.?

Capitated Bodies

Council notes:
that there are five different student bodies to which the college gives money namely: DUCAC, DU Publications, TCDSU, Trinity FM and the TCDGSU

Council strongly advocates:
that there should only be two such student bodies, namely TCDSU and TCDGSU and that TCDSU should govern work previously managed by DUCAC, DU Publications and Trinity FM

Council mandates:
the SU President to lobby the college board on the above item

foxybrowne

foxybrowne wrote:

Here's a motion I might submit to the next S.U. council, anyone like to add to it, amend it etc.?

Capitated Bodies

Council notes:
that there are five different student bodies to which the college gives money namely: DUCAC, DU Publications, TCDSU, Trinity FM and the TCDGSU

Council strongly advocates:
that there should only be two such student bodies, namely TCDSU and TCDGSU and that TCDSU should govern work previously managed by DUCAC, DU Publications and Trinity FM

Council mandates:
the SU President to lobby the college board on the above item

I think T:FM may wish they were a capitated body unto themselves, but the five are: SU, GSU, CSC, DUCAC & Publications.

Interesting proposal though, as that is how the situation is in other colleges. The arguments and the debate would be very interesting Mr. Foxy, for bringing this up at the very least I commend you.

Other colleges also wonder why Trinity has a separate SU for Postgraduates, of course. Also the issue of bringing publications under the SU would be hotly debated, I would imagine!

John

What about decapitated bodies?

Time Magazine

Never gonna happen.

Firstly, you'd have to bring it to Board; and they set the game a few years ago to fix up what was messy.

Technically, I'm told, the GMB capitiation committee is still actually in effect; but not used. The Phil and Histies joined the CSC as a means of getting funding but apparantly only on the condition that they could pull out at any time if they so desired and get the GMBC going again.

The plot thickens.

The GSU and the SU should be seperate. They have totally different agendas. The SU are all for banning Coke and what not; the GSU are far less politically-motivated (even with the odd motion).

And Pubs coming under the SU band-wagon? Can't see that happening without a fight .

Crash

either way i'll talk against it. despite my dislike of 3 out of 5 of those bodies, still a ****e idea imo - and you'll find those reasons out when i talk against it

Ron DMC

Yeah Pól. I also don't think it'll work.

Agent Smith

/me drools over the thought of T:FM being a capatated body......

Agent Smith

EduMyth wrote:

I think T:FM may wish they were a capitated body unto themselves, but the five are: SU, GSU, CSC, DUCAC & Publications.
Also the issue of bringing publications under the SU would be hotly debated, I would imagine!

surely that would mean the SU control All DU publications papers and Magazines, and would lead to one sided news....


i.e
From steph and her ability to shag a 57 man NFL team"
to Steph the lovely welfare Officer...





















































hmm steph..............:v:

europerson

The Calendar of the University of Dublin, Trinity College: Page U9 wrote:

The Capitation Committee reports to the Student Services Committee for the administration and control of funds allocated to it in accordance with guidelines approved by the Student Services Committee. Funds are allocated to the Central Societies Committee (who oversees the activities of
College societies), the D.U. Central Athletic Club (who oversees the activities of College clubs), the Students’ Union, the Graduate Students’ Union, and the College Publications Committee. The committee enforces rules for the accountability and control of cash which must be observed by
officials of societies and clubs and, in particular, by treasurers, who should when elected to office make themselves familiar with these rules.

One has to wonder whether the SU could cope with accountability, if there were a situation where the Trinity News and the University Record were merged.

The Publications team have built up a strong reputation for quality publishing. Miscellany was first published in 1894, Icarus in 1950, the Trinity News in 1958, Piranha in 1978, and DiverCity in 1999. They provide a much needed balance to the Record.

The GSU's aims are:

The Calendar of the University of Dublin, Trinity College: Page U3 wrote:

The objectives of the Union are:
(a) to protect the interests of all graduate students registered for higher degrees and to represent their interests on College, faculty and school committees; (b) to negotiate on matters concerning both the
conditions and remuneration for employment of graduate students within College; (c) to provide a Postgraduate Common Room where tea, coffee and newspapers are provided free of charge; (d) to foster friendly relations and understanding between postgraduates from all disciplines through social and educational functions held throughout the year.

The GSU also publishes College Green and the Journal of Postgaduate Research
To me, at least, the GSU's role is wholly incompatible with that of the SU:

The Calendar of the University of Dublin, Trinity College: Page U3 wrote:

The Students’ Union is the only representative body for all students in the College. It has the dual and complementary functions of representing students’ interests both inside and outside College and
of providing student services.

I think that the division between the GSU and the SU is useful for ensuring clarity of purpose.

DUCAC and the CSC ought not to be tampered with. The CSC provides an efficient and fair means of allocating monies to College societies. CSC elections are not the highly-politicised affair that SU elections are. Such politicking would only be harmful to the allocation of the limited resources available to societies. Similarly, DUCAC.

Overall, I find it unnecessary to have such rationalisation and centralisation in College. It is important to keep the Capitated Bodies independent of each other, so that everybody's interests are best represented.

NewOxfordReview

A few things. foxybrowne: if you don't even know what the capitated bodies are, I don't think you're really in a place to suggest changes to the way they're structured.

Further: DUCAC, for example, has been around far longer than the Students' Union.

europerson: it isn't really true that Miscellany has been around that long. The term weekly TCD: A College Miscellany was, but its content and format was nothing like that of the current magazine. Anyway, DU (or Trinity, as it's being called now) Publications wasn't around then.

Trinity News dates from 1947 or 1953, depending on who you ask; not 1958. I'm sure that was just a typo though!

Anyway, if I had my way, the two Students' Unions would be made societies under the Central Societies' Committee and membership made optional. Those societies main function is electing students to College committees; almost everything else is superfluous.

I can't see that happening. Actually I don't see anything happening. The Students' Union's council can talk itself into the ground but it doesn't mean anything will change.

europerson

Sorry, this was a typographical error:

europerson wrote:

...the Trinity News in 1958...

That ought to read "in 1953". My apologies.

On the subject of Miscellany, I am afraid I have to disagree. While the title may have changed, the subject matter has remained: commentary by students.

foxybrowne

Okay, we're getting there, is this a bit better?

Capitated Bodies

Council notes:
that there are five different student bodies to which the college, through the Student Services Committee, gives money namely: SU, GSU, CSC, DUCAC & DU Publications.

Council strongly advocates:
that there should only be two such student bodies, namely the SU and the GSU and that SU should govern work previously managed by DUCAC, DU Publications and the CSC

Council mandates:
Student representatives on the Student Services Committee to begin implementation of the above item.

Council also mandates:
the SU President to lobby the college board on the above item

Stargal

Ah Paul come on, are you joking? This throws up so much stuff that I don't know where to begin. The SU managing DUCAC, CSC and Pubs?! What good does that serve? The GSU is the smallest of the five capitated bodies - why do they get to stay?

The five work well autonomously as it is - how would money be distributed with this new model you're suggesting? What about the people employed by the CSC, DUCAC and the SU? Would the SU oversee allocations of money to societies? Would the SU have editorial control over Trinity News and the four magazines that Publications publish? What could the SU possibly bring to the running of the Sports Clubs? (Aside from persuading DUCAC to recognise more than 50 clubs but that's a whole other matter...).

This is ridiculous.

If you have a problem with how one of the capiated bodies is managed, funded or allocates funding then maybe you could bring it to them, rather than trying to write a giant catch-all motion which has no point.

NewOxfordReview

Well done foxybrowne, that's great but you're living in a dreamworld. There's no way that will ever ever be implemented. Even if it is passed, those in power will laugh at it. Nor is there any real point in it.

Regarding Miscellany: Have you ever read TCD: A College Miscellany? It is not commentary, it is news. TCD was the TN of the day.

europerson

NewOxfordReview wrote:

Regarding Miscellany: Have you ever read TCD: A College Miscellany? It is not commentary, it is news. TCD was the TN of the day.

Yes, I have. I accept that it was more news-focused than today's Miscellany, but all publications evolve in that way. Their content and stance change.

NewOxfordReview

If it has evolved then I would say it has evolved past being anything like the original; the only thing remaining is part of the name. It was referred to back then as TCD anyway. I also suspect the evolution has had a few gaps!
Anyway, off-topic, as they say, what what!

cuckoo

No, no, no!

Yeah, it happens in other colleges, and i've seen how it works in them. The SU ends up controlling societies - but, before that happens a strong society/sports club runs their own candidates.

The SU ends up spending it's time administering money, and, inevitably, working for the benefit of the members of sports club X or society Y. Imagine a SU sabbat team made up entirely of GMB heads - "ladiesengennelmen, honorable members of the union, let us protest the lack of funding for our venerable GMB. Yes, we may have in the last year installed 20,000 euro worth of audio visual equipment in the Debating Chamber, but it is disgraceful that the house chamnpagne for council members is non vintage. Gather and demonstrate with us".

Also, each body is administered by people with a specific skill set, the CSC exec have experience running societies, Pubs heads know about editing and photoshop, DUCAC bods are into fitness and arranging fixtures, GSU folk know the score for postgrad-y stuff and the SU Sabbats are good at running in elections.

cuckoo

foxybrowne wrote:

Okay, we're getting there, is this a bit better?

Capitated Bodies

Council notes:
that there are five different student bodies to which the college, through the Student Services Committee, gives money namely: SU, GSU, CSC, DUCAC & DU Publications.

Council strongly advocates:
that there should only be two such student bodies, namely the SU and the GSU and that SU should govern work previously managed by DUCAC, DU Publications and the CSC

Council mandates:
Student representatives on the Student Services Committee to begin implementation of the above item.

Council also mandates:
the SU President to lobby the college board on the above item

Also, to be nitpicky, the college doesn't per se 'give money' to the capitated bodies - it's our money, that we've paid in our registration fees.

And, frankly, i'd rather our SU president spend his time on committees fighting against the proposed introduction of a fee for the Student Health centre.

foxybrowne

Okay, I see what we're getting at. Its a tricky one alright.
Indeed I'm not very well versed with the details of this whole case. Will have to look into it over the hols.

Time Magazine

Council notes:
There's a fecking Palestinian flag flying in the JCR.

Council notes:
Regardless of your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that flag should not be bloody flying there.

The Union, henceforth, under my demand shall:
Remove the bloody thing pronto because the SU is not associated with Palestine.

Nietzschean

Hrmm could we propose the union take assocation with Palestine ?

Time Magazine

I don't think so.

Seeing as we don't even fly the Irish flag...

Angry Banana

Angry Banana wrote:

Council notes:
There's a fecking Palestinian flag flying in the JCR.

Council notes:
Regardless of your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that flag should not be bloody flying there.

The Union, henceforth, under my demand shall:
Remove the bloody thing pronto because the SU is not associated with Palestine.

You're not a class rep, but ask your rep to put it forward for you.

cuckoo wrote:

Also, each body is administered by people with a specific skill set, the CSC exec have experience running societies, Pubs heads know about editing and photoshop, DUCAC bods are into fitness and arranging fixtures, GSU folk know the score for postgrad-y stuff and the SU Sabbats are good at running in elections.

:v:

Time Magazine

EduMyth wrote:

You're not a class rep

How would you know?

but ask your rep to put it forward for you.

I don't need you to get me arrested. I can arrested all by myself.

Who wants me to get Crash and Ronny to put forward that motion? .

Oh and btw our new economics class rep sucks. He hasn't even said hello yet. I thought we still had a vacancy. Forshayem.

John

Angry Banana wrote:

Oh and btw our new economics class rep sucks. He hasn't even said hello yet. I thought we still had a vacancy. Forshayem.

Why don't you stage a coup?

Time Magazine

I respect his democratic non-mandate.

Nietzschean

Angry Banana wrote:

How would you know?

how could he not know ? not like you'd fade into the background on that list of class reps he has....

Time Magazine

To the first question: sarcasm.

Uibhir a dó: hehe actually I probably wouldn't. I'd be up to him more than I am normally.

Nietzschean

Angry Banana wrote:

To the first question: sarcasm.

You really need to learn you arn't funny...

Time Magazine

That was a bit un-provoked.

europerson

The SF Economics class rep election, to which Angry Banana is alluding, was "hotly contested", with the victor coming out with fourteen votes against the loser's ten. Now you can't say that's not democratic.

It's a pity, however, that, no-one informed students in lectures that the elections were going on. Come on Dónal...

Time Magazine

Europerson!

But the plot thickens! The victor of the economics class rep election went on to greater things soon thereafter.

Our new class rep's mandate is that he was the first (read only) one to head up to Dónal to give him a form!

See you in 10 minutes. I should really be studying Social Partnership. Ah well.

Agent Smith

Council notes:
enda is a cry baby.

CouncilAlso notes:enda has, in the past wet himself

Council Mandates:that Enda gets a nappy allowance, and his mother being aloud to hold his hand during lectures.

Crash

seconded.

Agent Smith

donal...


please prepare that for the next council

Ron DMC

agent smith wrote:

donal...


please prepare that for the next council

Don't be a gimp, we'll be busy enough on the joke-motion front. What with the wand and sceptre committee being elected.
Plus it'd only really be funny if Edna showed up.
I also think it's a misspending of funds if the SU money goes towards his nappies.

Crash

yeah, there are only so many joke motions i can propose/second.

agent smith

agent smith wrote:

donal...


please prepare that for the next council

How do I know that's you Joe, unless it comes from your tcd account, or is handed into me by yourself

Oh, and it never stipulates which Enda gets what. You'll be sending nappies to Enda Kenny.

Crash

You know, you'dve thought Joe would've learnt his lesson about careful phrasing after the last one?

Can I suggest that this thread be locked? Firstly because these aren't the SU boards, and secondly because the thread's first post is replicated here, with a separate discussion going on:

http://su.netsoc.tcd.ie/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=1336

I know people don't like the SU boards, but it is where these type of discussions are supposed to take place! Joke motions are something different, of course.

Plus it's annoying having two identical topics on the two boards I check the most

foxybrowne

Lock the thread. The inevitability of it all is clear.

Ron DMC

foxybrowne wrote:

Lock the thread. The inevitability of it all is clear.

Haha Sorry Pól

Nietzschean

EduMyth wrote:

Can I suggest that this thread be locked?

As you command...

Firstly because these aren't the SU boards, and secondly because the thread's first post is replicated here, with a separate discussion going on:

Having Read that,and here, i really don't understand ur arguement as there is way less comments there and tbh they are much less relevent and are mostly pointless argument about TN victimising the SU sabbats....